The cure for cults that want to deny others
their freedom of speech is more freedom of speech
-- Fredric Rice


Creationist Cults

Date: 11 Jun 2002 10:50:46
From: "Fredric L. Rice" <frice@SkepticTank.ORG>
To: "Niles"
Sub: Fw: ICR cult copyrighted materials?

At 12:36 PM 11/06/2002 -0500, you wrote:

>> Right, I can't figure out what exactly he's asking to be
>> removed. I'll contact the Chilling Effects clearing house
>> and see if they thing I should take any action. I sent this
>> inquiry to the Institute for Credulous Retards. I see the
>> idiot sent you a censored version! How amusing:

>Yet, he didn't censor the Subject title. hehe

<laughing!> I didn't notice that! I'm almost thinking that maybe he didn't know how. This guy doesn't seem to be the brightest star in the galaxy.

>> a copyright notice in its source. I've added criticism to
>> the web pages and in so doig incured the wrath of IRC
>> cultists who have sent me nut rants because of it. So it's
>> not as if the cult isn't aware of the fact that these files
>> are Fair Use criticism of the cult's bizarre claims.

> I don't know enough about fair use, but alot of those
> files (without >reading into them) appear to have comments
> from many people not associated with the ICR.

I'll go check. Ah, yes, you're right, there's a lot of information about the IRC that's from a lot of different people and organizations. It looks more and more as though his complaint is one of not wanting the criticism on the Internet.

I'll ask him again for _specifics_ when I point out to him the fact that he's claiming one of my web pages is copyrighted by his cult. Maybe if I can get some specifics I'll know which text files need attention.

> I wonder if he received written permission from each
> of those people? I have a feeling that Steven J Gould
> would have NEVER given a cult permission to publish any
> of his writings, speaches, etc. I know I saw his name
> in there somewhere, and he was a pretty firm Evolutionist.

It's kind of hard to ask Mr. Gould his opinion now. }:-}

>> What I'll do is I'll go through each of the text files
>> and make sure that there's Fair Use criticism contained
>> within each one; a debunking of the bizarre claims. I'll
>> make sure that they all conform to Fair Use which I do
>> believe that they all currently do since they're criticism
>> as well as coming from a non-commercial organization (The
>> Skeptic Tank is non-profit.)

> It would really seem to me that the additional
> information you provide with these texts would have an
> effect on the copywrite. Again, I don't know enough about
> copywrites to have much of an opinion though.

I've watched the Scientology organization's copyright claims since 1994 and I do know what constitutes Fair Use and what doesn't. Entire texts can be provided for non-commercial use provided it's done as criticism of the piece with an eye toward asserting that the piece being criticized wasn't taken out of context.

There's a _lot_ of texts on my web site that cover the IRC and it's a wonder he hasn't enumerated all of them.

Any text written by the creationist cult which may be quoted within this criticial examination of the creationist cult is provided according to U. S. Code Title 17 "Fair Use" dictates which may be reviewed at

"You can lie about ICR all you want." -- Jason Daniel Henderson

"Thank you for your permission however there's never any need to. Creationist propaganda is already self-debunking." -- Fredric L. Rice


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