The cure for cults that want to deny others
their freedom of speech is more freedom of speech
-- Fredric Rice


Creationist Cults

Date: Mon, 01 Jul 2002 00:38:51 +0200
From: Zenon Panoussis <>
To: Donald Barber <>
Subject: ICR on

Dear Mr Barber

Failing to find a contact e-mail address on the website, I am writing to you as the administrative contact of the domain with the request to forward this message to the legal department and/or the board of ICR, or whoever else you can find within ICR.

Thank you for your co-operation.



To the ICR


I am the ISP of . The webmaster of that domain, Mr. Fredric Rice, contacted me a few days ago with the request that I remove certain files from his own website, which he couldn't reach due to technical problems on our side. Through this request I learned that the ICR has demanded the removal of the files in question and threatened Mr Rice with lawsuits in case of his non-compliance.

I removed the files from Mr Rice's website as requested and took a good look at them. As far as I can see, there is no material whatsover in the pages in question that could even remotely constitute the foundation of a valid complaint. As far as I can see, the ICR has used threats of legal action in order to curtail Mr Rice's freedom of speech and suppress information that it dislikes, while conscious of the fact that a lawsuit with the same claims would have no merits.

As an individual, as well as in my capacity of ISP, I support freedom of speech solidly and squarely. In the light of the fact that I, as an ISP, offer Mr Rice's site and every other site hosted on my systems full protection against unfounded removal demands, I find the fact that the ICR could intimidate Mr Rice to censor his own site particularly disturbing. As a result of this, I decided to host the removed pages myself.

The pages in question are now hosted at (yes, it is indeed a very suitable domain for the purpose). The site is also accessible on IPv6 at

The site belongs to the Swedish non-profit association Net Theatre, is administrated by me and is hosted on my systems in the Netherlands. Dutch law applies to the content of the site. I am the ISP of, so there is very little point in complaining to the ISP of the site.

As far as it is within my power, the material that the ICR forced Mr Rice to remove will remain available on the Internet until kingdom come, with or against the will of the ICR and with or against the will of Mr Rice himself, unless either

For your information: I believe that it would be possible under US procedural law to sue me and/or Net Theatre in the US according to US law. A US ruling in ICR's favour is however not enforceable in the Netherlands without the ratification of a Dutch court, and would thus be meaningless.

Mr Rice is CC-ed on this by way of courtesy, but I will ignore any requests from him to remove the new site.

The ball, gentlemen, is in your court. If you are convinced that your claims are legally valid and founded, you are expected to act accordingly. If you abstain, you will be proving to yourselves and to others that you were wrong in the first place.

Zenon Panoussis

Any text written by the creationist cult which may be quoted within this criticial examination of the creationist cult is provided according to U. S. Code Title 17 "Fair Use" dictates which may be reviewed at

"You can lie about ICR all you want." -- Jason Daniel Henderson

"Thank you for your permission however there's never any need to. Creationist propaganda is already self-debunking." -- Fredric L. Rice


The views and opinions stated within this web page are those of the author or authors which wrote them and may not reflect the views and opinions of the ISP or account user which hosts the web page. The opinions may or may not be those of the Chairman of The Organized Crime Civilian Response®.

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