Path: ncsuvm!ncsuvx!lll-winken!brutus.cs.uiuc.edu!unix.cis.pitt.edu!
 zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!samsung!cs.utexas.edu!rice!uw-beaver!milton!blake!mrc@Tomobiki-Cho.CAC.Washington.EDU
From: mrc@Tomobiki-Cho.CAC.Washington.EDU (Mark Crispin)
Newsgroups: alt.atheism
Subject: "historical evidence" for JC
Message-ID: <6067@blake.acs.washington.edu>
Date: 28 Feb 90 01:37:17 GMT
Sender: news@blake.acs.washington.edu
Distribution: alt
Organization: Mendou Zaibatsu, Tomobiki-Cho, Butsumetsu-Shi
Lines: 81


     There is, in fact, *no* historical evidence for JC.  All of the
books of the New Testament were written at least 150 years after the
purported life of JC.  That is one reason why it JC's "prophecies" of
soon-to-come events were so close to the mark -- they were, in fact,
already past history!!

     Contemporary Roman accounts have nothing on JC, or of the JC
cult.  Certainly all the alleged persecutions of Xtians in the first
hundred years would have been recorded, someplace.  There is no such
record.

     What is clear is: some time after the Jewish revolt c. 70 and its
being crushed, a heresy of Judiasm developed among the survivors.  It
took many elements from other cults of the time; even the stories of
JC's virgin birth, sayings, healings of the sick, crucifixion, and
resurrection, were lifted shamelessly.  There is not a single original
idea in Xtianity.

     These cultists didn't bathe, castrated themselves (and sometimes
any unlucky travellers who fell into their clutches!), ranted and
raved in the streets, and in general made themselves thoroughly
obnoxious to the society of the time.  In other words, they were
looked on with as much disgust as we today look at Moonies or Hare
Krishnas.

     Freedoms of speech/religion being a relatively recent concept,
it's not difficult to surmise that the early Xtians were beaten up or
generally kicked around.  Their not bathing must have nauseated the
cleanliness-conscious Romans, just as castrationmust have revolted
them.  Let's face it, who hasn't want to beat the shit out of a
particularly obnoxious religious cultist whose harassing you in the
street?

     Presently, like most cults that fail to die out after a few
years, they acquired some respectability.  They mellowed out a bit,
and got a few respectable people to join.  They also started buttering
up to government in a serious way.  The harsh anti-Roman tracts were
altered somewhat to instead refer to a devil and his minions.  Various
other extentions to dogma were made that reinforced the authority of
civil leaders.

     You can see such processes today, with the Nichiren Shoshu
Sokagakkai (fundamentalist Buddhists who more or less limit their
theology to the Lotus Sutra) and the Moonies.  Both have mellowed out
in major ways since the 70's.  Both, however, are engaged in major
efforts to worm themselves into the mainstream of society, and are
still aggressively recruiting new members.  Sokagakkai controls a
major political party in Japan.  The Moonies have been buying
businesses all over the US and Korea; they publish Ronald Reagan's
favorite newspaper (The Washington Times).

     Once Xtianity had become established in Roman society, they
started writing out their purported books, predating all of them by
150 or more years.  Several drafts and variations were gone through
before the current favored set was accepted (and the authors of the
others executed...).  One of the major controversies about the Dead
Sea scrolls is that these are early drafts of the Xtian gospels, and
are at significant variance with the current Catholic, Orthodox, or
Protestant accepted versions.  It's been speculated that the decades-
long holdup on releasing them has been due to fear of the religious
scholars working on them of what impact it would have on Xtianity.

     Anyway, to conclude.  There is no historical evidence that JC
ever existed.  JC's reported life is the same stuff of myths as any of
the pagan gods.  Even if JC was an historic figure, the gospels have
little, if any, association with his life.  And furthermore, even if
JC was an historic figure, that still is not any proof for a god.
There have been itinerant preachers and magicians throughout history.
Perhaps the truly miraculous thing is that JC accomplished Xtianity
without, in fact, ever existing!

 _____     ____ ---+---   /-\   Mark Crispin           Atheist & Proud
 _|_|_  _|_ ||  ___|__   /  /   6158 Lariat Loop NE    R90/6 pilot
|_|_|_| /|\-++- |=====| /  /    Bainbridge Island, WA  "Gaijin! Gaijin!"
 --|--   | |||| |_____|   / \   USA  98110-2098        "Gaijin ha doko ka?"
  /|\    | |/\| _______  /   \  +1 (206) 842-2385      "Niichan ha gaijin."
 / | \   | |__| /     \ /     \ mrc@CAC.Washington.EDU "Chigau. Gaijin ja nai.
kisha no kisha ga kisha de kisha-shita                  Omae ha gaijin darou."
sumomo mo momo, momo mo momo, momo ni mo iroiro aru    "Iie, boku ha nihonjin."
uraniwa ni wa niwa, niwa ni wa niwa niwatori ga iru    "Souka. Yappari gaijin!"