From: Ed Mcdonough
To: Peter Miller Msg #4, 01-Nov-88 07:44pm
Subject: Membership Green Party of Canada
There are two parties. Membership in the federal party should be directed to
Treasurer
Green Party of Canada
Box 77155, Station `S'
Vancouver, BC
V5R 5T4
There is currently an administrative blockage at the Resource Centre for the
funds of the federal sector of the Green Party of Canada. We have a
provincial wing of the Party which has admin problems, this is part of the
solution; the other task which the separate address undertakes to deal with is
that the Resource Centre is too limited to include the work of the Treasurer
and of the Chief Agent. Yet a third is the difficulty of
distinguishing incoming mail between that meant for the provincial wing and
that meant for the party as a whole, or its Principal Offices. Especially
difficult are the donations from BC residents, which are directed toward the
provincial wing. In order that the Principal Offices can raise funds in BC,
it must have a separate address.
Oh, the membership in GP Can is $5 per year.
And don't say I didn't caution you.
---
* Origin: After Catalyst BBS, What's Left? Vancouver, BC (Opus 1:153/108)
SEEN
From: Doug Dunn
To: Peter Miller Msg #5, 07-Nov-88 12:23pm
Subject: Greening
From the prevoious message I take it the info I dropped off at the Coop never
made it to you. Well you can not blame people for wanting to hang on to good
intelligent reading material. I'm sure Allen was able to supply you with all
the material that I put in the package. The latest issue of the newspaper
just camit has some interesting articles in it. As Ed mentioned, this party
can be alittle chaotic but, WELCOME!!!! We need good solid individuals like
yourself if the party is to continue to grow. Hope to see you in person,
perhaps not until after the Election campaign is over, but soon. Til then
remember turning Green can be alot of fun..DD.
---
* Origin: After Catalyst BBS, What's Left? Vancouver, BC (Opus 1:153/108)
SEEN-BY: 107/701 153/108 221/0 162 520/701 633/366
Mar 3 13:50
#124311 from kthompso@ptolemy.arc.nasa.gov
Group : NET.Activism
Length : 957 words
Subject : Re: National Green Movement (long response)
Read 2 times
MSG-ID: <999@ptolemy.arc.nasa.gov>
Posted: 3 Mar 89 07:40:31 GMT
Org. : NASA Ames Research Center, Moffett Field, CA
In article <5032@xenna.Encore.COM> kaufman@maxzilla.UUCP (Lar Kaufman) writes:
> vu0112@bingvaxu.cc.binghamton.edu.cc.binghamton.edu (Cliff Joslyn) writes:
>>Who has the address for the American Green Party (silly boy, *is* there
>>an address? Hell, is there a national organization?) Barring that,
>>what about the Northeast regional group?
>
> I suspect that there is no formal organization on any kind of scale in
> the U.S.A. What would it stand for? Americans do not view the goals
> of, say, the German Green Party the same monolithic way. We tend to
> see conservation, ecology, nuclear power and nuclear disarmament as
> separate issues.
Yes, there is an North American Green movement, spiritually connected to the
movement that is now throughout Western Europe, many Asian countries, Mexico,
Canada, Costa Rica, Argentina, and Brazil. Excuse me while I take the
opportunity (it was begging) to introduce it: I was surprised to see no one
challenge for a day and a half someone's assertion that it didn't exist in the
US. Yes, it's small, but it's new and growing.
Created in 1984, it now consists of over 200 (more all the time -- membership
is up sharply since the last election |-)) locally-based grassroots groups.
There have been national meetings in 1984 and 1987, and there is a conference
this summer solstice in Eugene, Oregon that is scheduled to have ~500
delegates
from around the country. The "Greening the West" conference in La Honda, CA
(S
of S.F.) was a great success in October 1988. The national movement is best
reached through:
National Clearinghouse (816) 931-9366.
Committees of Correspondence
P.O. Box 30208
Kansas City, MO 64112
(in KC because of geographical centrality). The CoC is *not* the national
organization in a Demopublican sense; it is a clearinghouse of information,
and
can get you in touch with any groups in your area (start a new one if there
isn't). $25 will make you a supporting member (they need it financially)
and get you the national quarterly magazine.
At the initial conference in 1984, the Committees of Correspondence adopted
the
Ten Key Values, building on the 4 Pillars of the German Die Gruenen (sp?) and
adding an explicit commitment to decentralization.
The ten key values (ecological wisdom, grassroots democracy, personal & social
responsibility, nonviolence, decentralization, community-based economics,
postpatriarchical values, respect for diversity, global responsibility, and
future focus/sustainability)
is not a list of ten separate issues, but aspects of a coherent unified
world view, and are interconnected in a very basic way. They convey our
commitment to a value-based politics, a new politics that seeks to create a
shared sense of the common good ... they are the shared basis of our
network
of strong value-oriented local groups seeking fundamental change.
(from the National Committees of Correspondence).
> I think the U.S. is about the only democracy in which there is not yet a
> viable conservation party ... Historically, this is probably because until
> the last decade, conservationism wasn't particularly an issue that divided
> along party lines. Now it seems to be. As the immediacy of the need for
> action grows, many feel that one party so hostile to conservation that the
> other only has to pay lip service to conservationism in order to appear on
> the correct side of the issue.
I agree wholeheartedly that it will be quite difficult to establish such a
movement in this country; in the political arena, you haven't touched on a
fundamental reason such a group can do better politically in Western Europe:
proportional representation. However, I think you misjudge the essence of the
Green alternative: many in the Greens don't believe that one can just have an
alternative electoral politics party to make real change; co-optation will be
inevitable unless the electoral branch of the movement has a strong spiritual
underpinning at the grassroots level (which many political movements lack).
Thus, there is ongoing discussion whether electoral politics is the priority
initially -- I personally believe it is but one part of the equation. A basic
change in the way people live their lives cannot come from elected officials.
> Start with trying to get someone on a city council ...
FYI There are or have been Greens or those with Green sympathies in elected
posts in Austin TX, Madison WI, Orange Cty NC others. I understand they have
done quite well in New Haven. I can get interested parties in touch with a
Green Party of the West centered in the S.F. Bay area that is beginning work
on
so-called Green ballot initiatives [I can also put anyone in Northern CA in
touch with the closest group, I have a current list -- the S.F. Greens are
sponsoring an excellent lecture series all spring].
I think the best book on the American movement is Brian Tokar, _The Green
Alternative: Creating an Ecological Future_, found at no bookstores that I
know
of. Order from R.&E. Miles, PO Box 1916, San Pedro, CA 90733. $7.95 + .75
p/h
paperback, $15.95 + $1 p/h hard (last I checked, you might want to contact
them) (oops I just forgot I think you can send that money to the CoC and get
the book also). Other good books include Charlene Spretnak & Fritjof Capra,
_Green Politics: The Global Promise_, Bear & Company, Santa Fe.
I encourage anyone to look into the movement. The Greens are among the few
who
realize that a fundamental restructuring of society and people's lives is
necessary to save the planet. I do not claim they have all the answers, but I
do claim that they are for the most part asking the right questions, which is
more (I believe) than most the Demopublicans can claim.
Kevin Thompson
--
kthompso@ptolemy.arc.nasa.gov Sterling Software/Nasa-Ames Research Center
*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*
Mar 4 05:50
#124520 from kaufman@maxzilla.Encore.COM
Group : NET.Activism
Length : 480 words
Subject : Re: National Green Movement (long response)
Read 2 times
MSG-ID: <5042@xenna.Encore.COM>
Posted: 3 Mar 89 16:49:59 GMT
Org. : Encore Computer Corp, Marlboro, MA
In article <999@ptolemy.arc.nasa.gov> kthompso@ptolemy.UUCP (Kevin Thompson)
writes:
>In article <5032@xenna.Encore.COM> kaufman@maxzilla.UUCP (Lar Kaufman)
writes:
>> I suspect that there is no formal organization on any kind of scale in
>Yes, there is an North American Green movement, spiritually connected to the
>movement that is now throughout Western Europe, many Asian countries, Mexico,
.
.
.
>of S.F.) was a great success in October 1988. The national movement is best
>reached through:
>
> National Clearinghouse (816) 931-9366.
> Committees of Correspondence
> P.O. Box 30208
> Kansas City, MO 64112
>
>(in KC because of geographical centrality). The CoC is *not* the national
>organization in a Demopublican sense; it is a clearinghouse of information,
and
.
.
.
>> Start with trying to get someone on a city council ...
>
>FYI There are or have been Greens or those with Green sympathies in elected
>posts in Austin TX, Madison WI, Orange Cty NC others. I understand they have
.
.
.
Let me say at this point that I am not challenging the objectives of
"The Greens" here. I merely question whether there is a viable Green
Party in the United States. I am particularly curious about your
statement as regards Austin. Are you sure you aren't claiming credit
for activities that may parallel some Green Party objectives, but are
not in fact Green Party activities? I have participated in political
activities in Austin from time to time since 1968. I supported Austin
Environmental Council activities. I worked for "no growth" candidates.
I have a pretty good idea who I conceive to be the "good guys" in
Austin politics, even today. (Haven't been there in the last two
years, but I have friends and relatives still living there.) Never has
anyone mentioned the Green Party as any kind of political force in
Austin. I do think there is a member of Austin's city council who
probably encompasses many Green Party perspectives, but I doubt that
he would claim to be a Green, or would want to be linked to the Green
movement. The reason is, once again, that Americans simply do not buy
the bundle of issues that the Green Party espouses. It is a simple
political fact here that people more readily vote _against_ things
than they vote _for_ things. And that is why the Green Party will not
(in my opinion) be a successful political party in the U.S.A.
The "clearinghouse of information" concept is probably valuable, and
useful, a la National Organization of Women. I would expect things
like endorsements to be harmful to a candidate more often than it
helps, however.
-lar (greendog of MassNet Central, Fido 1:322/470@508-534-1842)
Lar Kaufman <= my opinions "tame cats on a web of the persian woof
may lick their lips and purr for cream
but i am a tougher kind of goof
kaufman@Encore.com dreaming a freer kind of scheme"
*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*
Mar 4 05:50
#124521 from mnussbaum@vms.macc.wisc.edu
Group : NET.Activism
Length : 544 words
Subject : Re: National Green Movement (long response)
Read 2 times
MSG-ID: <1267@dogie.edu>
Posted: 4 Mar 89 00:53:26 GMT
Org. : let me think about that...
In article <5042@xenna.Encore.COM>, kaufman@maxzilla.Encore.COM (Lar Kaufman)
writes...
> ....
>I do think there is a member of Austin's city council who
>probably encompasses many Green Party perspectives, but I doubt that
>he would claim to be a Green, or would want to be linked to the Green
>movement. The reason is, once again, that Americans simply do not buy
>the bundle of issues that the Green Party espouses. It is a simple
>political fact here that people more readily vote _against_ things
>than they vote _for_ things. And that is why the Green Party will not
>(in my opinion) be a successful political party in the U.S.A.
I think there are probably lots of people who _do_ buy the bundle of issues
that the Green Party espouses, but the American political structure conspires
against them. In Germany, 5% of the vote is enough to get you a set in the
Bundestag or the Landtag, or whatever your're running for. In the USA, 5% of
the vote usually won't get your name in the paper for the election returns.
In Germany, you can make a strong political statement in your platform and
still get a few people elected; you'll be in a minority, but you'll have a
forum
and maybe even the balance of power. In the USA, if you're serious about
getting elected, you fuzz over the issues, trying to make statements that will
make a lot of people think you're *really* on their side, even though you
can't
come out and say it directly. If you're serious about the issues, you
generally
limit your investment in electoral politics.
At the local level, where Greenish activists are most likely to succeed in
getting elected, there is an especially large difference between German
elections and American elections. In Germany, city council elections are run
like national elections: party slates, proportional representation, etc...
And the council members act like members of a partisan parliamentary body.
I watched a meeting of the Stadtrat in Krefeld once, and I was amazed to see
how perfunctory the debate on the issues was; everything had all been decided
already in caucus. It was very different from the Madison, WI city council
where, if emotions were running high enough, a single zoning change could be
debated all night. For most city councils that I know about, party
affiliations
are irrelevant, so a Green Party endorsement would not do much good.
I suspect that there are a lot of people in this country who do agree
with the Greens' perspective on the issues. But the differences between the
ways that politics and government work in this country, compared to the ways
they work in Europe, mean that if the Green movement wants to make a
difference
in this country, they will have to find ways of organizing and expressing
their
politics that do not seem absolutely futile to most of their would-be
sympathizers. I think that means, first of all, that while the German Greens
can do well in competition with the SDP and the CDU, the American Green should
leve the Democrats and the Republicans to their silly games, while looking for
a forum that makes more sense.
I hope they find one while there's still some Earth left to save.
*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*
---
* Origin: After Catalyst BBS, What's Left? Vancouver, BC (Opus 1:153/108)
SEEN-BY: 107/501 535 701 134/15 153/20 108 401 221/0 162 333
SEEN-BY: 520/701 633/366 1937/100
From: Steve Kisby
To: All Msg #55, 06-Mar-89 10:47pm
Subject: Pt. Grey Provincial By-election
News release via Green Party Resource Centre, Vancouver 604-254-8165
PT. GREY GREENS NOMINATE CANDIDATE
POINT GREY -- 23 February 1989 -- Members of the Green Party
Vancouver-Pt. Grey Constituency Association acclaimed Valerie Parker,
as their candidate for the March 15 provincial by-election.
Mrs. Parker is a school teacher in Vancouver. She works with young
students who are becoming aware that they face an uncertain, and
frightening future. She is certain that their future and their
children's future can be secured only by acting now. Mrs. Parker ran
for the Greens in the 1988 Vancouver civic election and received over
23,000 votes for Parks Board Commissioner.
"The residents of Point Grey are among the most environmentally
concerned people in this country," said Parker, "I believe they want a
representative who will voice these issues at all times, not just at
election time."
"The Green Party's policies need to be implemented now," she
continued. "They offer an effective new outlook on our relationship
with the environment around us. Dioxin, lead and carbon-dioxide
pollution require immediate action. These are tough problems and they
need tough solutions."
This by-election will not decide the fate of the government, but it
could be the timely platform for ecological issues that the federal
election never was. Our campaign will be urging the voters of Point
Grey to "Make the world of difference -- elect a Green to the
legislature."
The Party is committed to the creation of a healthy society in a
healthy environment. It is based on the realization that we must move
from a system of unlimited growth -- which is favoured by Socreds,
Liberals, and New Democrats alike -- to one that considers the
long-term consequences of our actions.
From: GREEN PARTY VANCOUVER--POINT GREY CONSTITUENCY ASSOCIATION
5998 Larch Street, Vancouver, B.C. V6M 4E4
Ref: Valerie Parker (604) 266-4118 (day)
Candidate (604) 266-9431 (evenings)
Or: Steve Kisby (604) 276-7858 (day)
Assoc. Coordinator (604) 734-2890 (evenings)
- 30 -
---
* Origin: After Catalyst BBS, What's Left? Vancouver, BC (Opus 1:153/108)
SEEN-BY: 107/501 535 701 134/15 153/20 108 401 221/0 162 333
SEEN-BY: 520/701 633/366 1937/100
From: Ken Mcvay
To: Brian Bedford Msg #26, 09-Jan-89 10:08am
Subject: This area
The Old Frog's Almanac joins this conference today, primarily to make it
available to Albert Pasternak during his sojourn on the West Coast, and to
make it available to local Green Party users who are unable to access his
system during his brief absence.
Please advise status - should this conference be made available to the public?
If so, under what conditions?
Cheers,
Wiz
--- ConfMail V3.31
* Origin: The Old Frog's Almanac [AlterNET 7:680/20] (604) 758-3072
(1:153/20)
SEEN-BY: 107/701 153/108 221/0 162 333 520/701 633/366
From: James Waldron
To: All Msg #45, 13-Feb-89 12:25pm
Subject: Oil Leak Stopped
* Forwarded from 'UNITEX' area by James Waldron on 1:107/701 using Msg V3.2
Via GreenLink:
=================================================================
February 11, 1989
CREW STOPS ANTARCTIC OIL LEAK
By REBECCA KOLBERG
UPI Science Writer
WASHINGTON (UPI) - A clean-up crew stopped oil leaking from an
Antarctic shipwreck Friday, but scientists said the spill is
wreaking havoc on wildlife and it will take awhile to determine
the extent of damage to the fragile environment.
Speaking by telephone from the Antarctic, National Science
Foundation officials said divers finally blocked the diesel oil
that had been flowing from the submerged ship's fuel tanks for
more than a week. Workers also finished cleaning up as much oil
as they could from surrounding waters.
"We met our initial objective - to stop oil from leaking out of
the wreck and to remove as much oil as possible," said Thomas
Forhan, head of the NSF's clean-up effort.
Forhan said the oil-skimming boats can only remove oil slicks
one-25th of an inch or thicker so "a thin sheen (of oil) is still
visible in some areas around the wreck and station."
The Argentine excursion ship Bahia Paraiso hit a rock Jan. 28
near the science foundation's Palmer Base Research Center on the
Antarctic Peninsula, forcing the evacuation of the 350 people
aboard. The vessel turned over Feb. 3, spilling at least 180,000
gallons of the estimated 250,000 or more gallons of fuel aboard,
Forhan said.
Bernhard Lettau, the NSF's manager of polar ocean sciences, said
it appears this year's crop of skua chicks around Palmer Station
will be killed because of the spill. Skua are brown and white sea
gulls found on cold seas.
Since the spill, Lettau said almost 90 percent of local skua
chicks have perished - most likely cannibalized by other adult
skuas when their disoriented parents failed to guard them.
Scientists also reported finding some dead penguins, but Lettau
said it was difficult to determine the extent of the problem
because predators quickly eat dead birds.
NSF workers are banding penguin chicks - many of which are about
to take their first swim in the water - to better gauge the
spill's impact.
Scientists also spotted an unusually high number of dead
cormorant chicks and two severely weakened, oil-covered seals,
one of which appeared to have been attacked by predatory birds.
"Some of the effects (on wildlife) were immediate and severe.
The overall, long-term effects are not yet known," Lettau said.
"We are not just waiting for the second shoe to drop, we are
waiting for a lot of shoes to drop."
Forhan said an estimated 75,000 gallons of petroleum remains in
the ship's fuel tanks, and about 450 55-gallon drums of gas and
diesel fuel are still aboard the sunken ship, which probably
cannot be raised.
Forhan said he hopes Argentine salvage teams on the scene will
remove the remaining petroleum. Clean-up crews will remain on
hand in case spills occur during that process. If all goes well,
he estimated the whole clean-up operation would be finished
within a month.
The clean-up team includes crew members and equipment from the
National Science Foundation, Navy, Coast Guard, National
Oceanographic and Atmospheric Administration and private
contractors.
--- ConfMail V3.31
* Origin: UNITEX NETWORK --> Toward a United Species (1:107/701)
SEEN-BY: 107/501 535 701 221/162 520/701
From: Peter Ronald
To: All Msg #54, 05-Mar-89 04:30pm
Subject: US Greens
Taken from MIND LINK on Mar 5 02:05
Mar 3 13:50
#124311 from kthompso@ptolemy.arc.nasa.gov
Group : NET.Activism
Length : 957 words
Subject : Re: National Green Movement (long response)
Read 2 times
MSG-ID: <999@ptolemy.arc.nasa.gov>
Posted: 3 Mar 89 07:40:31 GMT
Org. : NASA Ames Research Center, Moffett Field, CA
In article <5032@xenna.Encore.COM> kaufman@maxzilla.UUCP (Lar Kaufman) writes:
> vu0112@bingvaxu.cc.binghamton.edu.cc.binghamton.edu (Cliff Joslyn) writes:
>>Who has the address for the American Green Party (silly boy, *is* there
>>an address? Hell, is there a national organization?) Barring that,
>>what about the Northeast regional group?
>
> I suspect that there is no formal organization on any kind of scale in
> the U.S.A. What would it stand for? Americans do not view the goals
> of, say, the German Green Party the same monolithic way. We tend to
> see conservation, ecology, nuclear power and nuclear disarmament as
> separate issues.
Yes, there is an North American Green movement, spiritually connected to the
movement that is now throughout Western Europe, many Asian countries, Mexico,
Canada, Costa Rica, Argentina, and Brazil. Excuse me while I take the
opportunity (it was begging) to introduce it: I was surprised to see no one
challenge for a day and a half someone's assertion that it didn't exist in the
US. Yes, it's small, but it's new and growing.
Created in 1984, it now consists of over 200 (more all the time -- membership
is up sharply since the last election |-)) locally-based grassroots groups.
There have been national meetings in 1984 and 1987, and there is a conference
this summer solstice in Eugene, Oregon that is scheduled to have ~500
delegates
from around the country. The "Greening the West" conference in La Honda, CA
(S
of S.F.) was a great success in October 1988. The national movement is best
reached through:
National Clearinghouse (816) 931-9366.
Committees of Correspondence
P.O. Box 30208
Kansas City, MO 64112
(in KC because of geographical centrality). The CoC is *not* the national
organization in a Demopublican sense; it is a clearinghouse of information,
and
can get you in touch with any groups in your area (start a new one if there
isn't). $25 will make you a supporting member (they need it financially)
and get you the national quarterly magazine.
At the initial conference in 1984, the Committees of Correspondence adopted
the
Ten Key Values, building on the 4 Pillars of the German Die Gruenen (sp?) and
adding an explicit commitment to decentralization.
The ten key values (ecological wisdom, grassroots democracy, personal & social
responsibility, nonviolence, decentralization, community-based economics,
postpatriarchical values, respect for diversity, global responsibility, and
future focus/sustainability)
is not a list of ten separate issues, but aspects of a coherent unified
world view, and are interconnected in a very basic way. They convey our
commitment to a value-based politics, a new politics that seeks to create a
shared sense of the common good ... they are the shared basis of our
network
of strong value-oriented local groups seeking fundamental change.
(from the National Committees of Correspondence).
> I think the U.S. is about the only democracy in which there is not yet a
> viable conservation party ... Historically, this is probably because until
> the last decade, conservationism wasn't particularly an issue that divided
> along party lines. Now it seems to be. As the immediacy of the need for
> action grows, many feel that one party so hostile to conservation that the
> other only has to pay lip service to conservationism in order to appear on
> the correct side of the issue.
I agree wholeheartedly that it will be quite difficult to establish such a
movement in this country; in the political arena, you haven't touched on a
fundamental reason such a group can do better politically in Western Europe:
proportional representation. However, I think you misjudge the essence of the
Green alternative: many in the Greens don't believe that one can just have an
alternative electoral politics party to make real change; co-optation will be
inevitable unless the electoral branch of the movement has a strong spiritual
underpinning at the grassroots level (which many political movements lack).
Thus, there is ongoing discussion whether electoral politics is the priority
initially -- I personally believe it is but one part of the equation. A basic
change in the way people live their lives cannot come from elected officials.
> Start with trying to get someone on a city council ...
FYI There are or have been Greens or those with Green sympathies in elected
posts in Austin TX, Madison WI, Orange Cty NC others. I understand they have
done quite well in New Haven. I can get interested parties in touch with a
Green Party of the West centered in the S.F. Bay area that is beginning work
on
so-called Green ballot initiatives [I can also put anyone in Northern CA in
touch with the closest group, I have a current list -- the S.F. Greens are
sponsoring an excellent lecture series all spring].
I think the best book on the American movement is Brian Tokar, _The Green
Alternative: Creating an Ecological Future_, found at no bookstores that I
know
of. Order from R.&E. Miles, PO Box 1916, San Pedro, CA 90733. $7.95 + .75
p/h
paperback, $15.95 + $1 p/h hard (last I checked, you might want to contact
them) (oops I just forgot I think you can send that money to the CoC and get
the book also). Other good books include Charlene Spretnak & Fritjof Capra,
_Green Politics: The Global Promise_, Bear & Company, Santa Fe.
I encourage anyone to look into the movement. The Greens are among the few
who
realize that a fundamental restructuring of society and people's lives is
necessary to save the planet. I do not claim they have all the answers, but I
do claim that they are for the most part asking the right questions, which is
more (I believe) than most the Demopublicans can claim.
Kevin Thompson
--
kthompso@ptolemy.arc.nasa.gov Sterling Software/Nasa-Ames Research Center
*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*
Mar 4 05:50
#124520 from kaufman@maxzilla.Encore.COM
Group : NET.Activism
Length : 480 words
Subject : Re: National Green Movement (long response)
Read 2 times
MSG-ID: <5042@xenna.Encore.COM>
Posted: 3 Mar 89 16:49:59 GMT
Org. : Encore Computer Corp, Marlboro, MA
In article <999@ptolemy.arc.nasa.gov> kthompso@ptolemy.UUCP (Kevin Thompson)
writes:
>In article <5032@xenna.Encore.COM> kaufman@maxzilla.UUCP (Lar Kaufman)
writes:
>> I suspect that there is no formal organization on any kind of scale in
>Yes, there is an North American Green movement, spiritually connected to the
>movement that is now throughout Western Europe, many Asian countries, Mexico,
.
.
.
>of S.F.) was a great success in October 1988. The national movement is best
>reached through:
>
> National Clearinghouse (816) 931-9366.
> Committees of Correspondence
> P.O. Box 30208
> Kansas City, MO 64112
>
>(in KC because of geographical centrality). The CoC is *not* the national
>organization in a Demopublican sense; it is a clearinghouse of information,
and
.
.
.
>> Start with trying to get someone on a city council ...
>
>FYI There are or have been Greens or those with Green sympathies in elected
>posts in Austin TX, Madison WI, Orange Cty NC others. I understand they have
.
.
.
Let me say at this point that I am not challenging the objectives of
"The Greens" here. I merely question whether there is a viable Green
Party in the United States. I am particularly curious about your
statement as regards Austin. Are you sure you aren't claiming credit
for activities that may parallel some Green Party objectives, but are
not in fact Green Party activities? I have participated in political
activities in Austin from time to time since 1968. I supported Austin
Environmental Council activities. I worked for "no growth" candidates.
I have a pretty good idea who I conceive to be the "good guys" in
Austin politics, even today. (Haven't been there in the last two
years, but I have friends and relatives still living there.) Never has
anyone mentioned the Green Party as any kind of political force in
Austin. I do think there is a member of Austin's city council who
probably encompasses many Green Party perspectives, but I doubt that
he would claim to be a Green, or would want to be linked to the Green
movement. The reason is, once again, that Americans simply do not buy
the bundle of issues that the Green Party espouses. It is a simple
political fact here that people more readily vote _against_ things
than they vote _for_ things. And that is why the Green Party will not
(in my opinion) be a successful political party in the U.S.A.
The "clearinghouse of information" concept is probably valuable, and
useful, a la National Organization of Women. I would expect things
like endorsements to be harmful to a candidate more often than it
helps, however.
-lar (greendog of MassNet Central, Fido 1:322/470@508-534-1842)
Lar Kaufman <= my opinions "tame cats on a web of the persian woof
may lick their lips and purr for cream
but i am a tougher kind of goof
kaufman@Encore.com dreaming a freer kind of scheme"
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Mar 4 05:50
#124521 from mnussbaum@vms.macc.wisc.edu
Group : NET.Activism
Length : 544 words
Subject : Re: National Green Movement (long response)
Read 2 times
MSG-ID: <1267@dogie.edu>
Posted: 4 Mar 89 00:53:26 GMT
Org. : let me think about that...
In article <5042@xenna.Encore.COM>, kaufman@maxzilla.Encore.COM (Lar Kaufman)
writes...
> ....
>I do think there is a member of Austin's city council who
>probably encompasses many Green Party perspectives, but I doubt that
>he would claim to be a Green, or would want to be linked to the Green
>movement. The reason is, once again, that Americans simply do not buy
>the bundle of issues that the Green Party espouses. It is a simple
>political fact here that people more readily vote _against_ things
>than they vote _for_ things. And that is why the Green Party will not
>(in my opinion) be a successful political party in the U.S.A.
I think there are probably lots of people who _do_ buy the bundle of issues
that the Green Party espouses, but the American political structure conspires
against them. In Germany, 5% of the vote is enough to get you a set in the
Bundestag or the Landtag, or whatever your're running for. In the USA, 5% of
the vote usually won't get your name in the paper for the election returns.
In Germany, you can make a strong political statement in your platform and
still get a few people elected; you'll be in a minority, but you'll have a
forum
and maybe even the balance of power. In the USA, if you're serious about
getting elected, you fuzz over the issues, trying to make statements that will
make a lot of people think you're *really* on their side, even though you
can't
come out and say it directly. If you're serious about the issues, you
generally
limit your investment in electoral politics.
At the local level, where Greenish activists are most likely to succeed in
getting elected, there is an especially large difference between German
elections and American elections. In Germany, city council elections are run
like national elections: party slates, proportional representation, etc...
And the council members act like members of a partisan parliamentary body.
I watched a meeting of the Stadtrat in Krefeld once, and I was amazed to see
how perfunctory the debate on the issues was; everything had all been decided
already in caucus. It was very different from the Madison, WI city council
where, if emotions were running high enough, a single zoning change could be
debated all night. For most city councils that I know about, party
affiliations
are irrelevant, so a Green Party endorsement would not do much good.
I suspect that there are a lot of people in this country who do agree
with the Greens' perspective on the issues. But the differences between the
ways that politics and government work in this country, compared to the ways
they work in Europe, mean that if the Green movement wants to make a
difference
in this country, they will have to find ways of organizing and expressing
their
politics that do not seem absolutely futile to most of their would-be
sympathizers. I think that means, first of all, that while the German Greens
can do well in competition with the SDP and the CDU, the American Green should
leve the Democrats and the Republicans to their silly games, while looking for
a forum that makes more sense.
I hope they find one while there's still some Earth left to save.
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* Origin: After Catalyst BBS, What's Left? Vancouver, BC (Opus 1:153/108)
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From: Steve Kisby
To: All Msg #55, 06-Mar-89 10:47pm
Subject: Pt. Grey Provincial By-election
News release via Green Party Resource Centre, Vancouver 604-254-8165
PT. GREY GREENS NOMINATE CANDIDATE
POINT GREY -- 23 February 1989 -- Members of the Green Party
Vancouver-Pt. Grey Constituency Association acclaimed Valerie Parker,
as their candidate for the March 15 provincial by-election.
Mrs. Parker is a school teacher in Vancouver. She works with young
students who are becoming aware that they face an uncertain, and
frightening future. She is certain that their future and their
children's future can be secured only by acting now. Mrs. Parker ran
for the Greens in the 1988 Vancouver civic election and received over
23,000 votes for Parks Board Commissioner.
"The residents of Point Grey are among the most environmentally
concerned people in this country," said Parker, "I believe they want a
representative who will voice these issues at all times, not just at
election time."
"The Green Party's policies need to be implemented now," she
continued. "They offer an effective new outlook on our relationship
with the environment around us. Dioxin, lead and carbon-dioxide
pollution require immediate action. These are tough problems and they
need tough solutions."
This by-election will not decide the fate of the government, but it
could be the timely platform for ecological issues that the federal
election never was. Our campaign will be urging the voters of Point
Grey to "Make the world of difference -- elect a Green to the
legislature."
The Party is committed to the creation of a healthy society in a
healthy environment. It is based on the realization that we must move
from a system of unlimited growth -- which is favoured by Socreds,
Liberals, and New Democrats alike -- to one that considers the
long-term consequences of our actions.
From: GREEN PARTY VANCOUVER--POINT GREY CONSTITUENCY ASSOCIATION
5998 Larch Street, Vancouver, B.C. V6M 4E4
Ref: Valerie Parker (604) 266-4118 (day)
Candidate (604) 266-9431 (evenings)
Or: Steve Kisby (604) 276-7858 (day)
Assoc. Coordinator (604) 734-2890 (evenings)
- 30 -
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* Origin: After Catalyst BBS, What's Left? Vancouver, BC (Opus 1:153/108)
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From: Helen Martin
To: All Msg #56, 19-Mar-89 10:28pm
Subject: BC AGM and policy convention
This is an open challenge to the current executive of the
Green Party of BC to justify the planning process for the
upcoming AGM and policy convention.
It seems upon consideration of the planning that it has been
deliberately planned to exclude a large portion of the
membership, specifically women, and anyone on a limited income,
or anyone in a low status job who can't get an extra day off for
the weekend.
For myself, $25.00 registration plus $75.00 for food plus
$68-72 for accommodation (unless I wanted to sleep in an unheated
cabin in the northern Okanagan in March), plus transportation
puts attending the conference completely out of reach. A Green
AGM has never cost this much before!!! This weekend would
cost me over $225.00. Of course, all our single parents will
just dig this up out of some imaginary fund. And, of course,
demographics around wages being what they are, all the people
with whom I've spoken about not going because of cost, are women.
Then, even if I could afford to come, I'd have to cope with
the fact that the conference starts a whole day before the
weekend starts. Most of us don't get off until Thursday night.
Why does the policy convention start Thursday morning? So you
don't have to listen to anyone who might disagree with you for
at least 50% of the policy discussions?
I guess this pretty much assures the outcome of the
conference, more one-issue party rhetoric, and a very clear
message to all the struggling women of BC how much we want them
---
* Origin: Stamp Out Cupcake Abuse Now! (Opus 1:153/20)
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From: James Waldron
To: All Msg #61, 04-May-89 10:20am
Subject: ANY SIGN OF LIFE HERE?
Except for the recent messages entered by UNITEX, there hasn't
been any traffic in this Conference for months?! ......
Has this echo moved on to another name or systems?
James Waldron, UNITEX Moderator?
--- Msg V3.2
* Origin: UNITEX: Crime Stoppers Against the New Age Hustle (1:107/501)
SEEN-BY: 107/501 535 701 221/162
*** There is a reply. See #62.
From: Cindy Long Rec'd
To: James Waldron Msg #62, 07-May-89 11:18am
Subject: ANY SIGN OF LIFE HERE?
> Except for the recent messages entered by UNITEX, there hasn't
> been any traffic in this Conference for months?! ......
>
> Has this echo moved on to another name or systems?
>
>
> James Waldron, UNITEX Moderator?
>
>
I've wondered about this myself. Along with ECOCHAT and NATIVE,
GRNCHAT has been *Dead* for months it seems, except for your postings to which
I don't usually respond since they are more information bulletins rather than
conversational topics. They are of interest, but don't spark in me an
immediate response.
I thought this was the Green Party echo . . . if so, where are the members of
the Green Party who presumably started it? I'm completely baffled, personally,
and have no explanation to offer. (But it's nice to see you're still here.)
:)
Cindy.
--- ConfMail V3.2
* Origin: Cindy's House (1:225/333)
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*** Part of a conversation.
From: James Waldron
To: Cindy Long Msg #63, 08-May-89 09:22am
Subject: Re: ANY SIGN OF LIFE HERE?
CL> > Except for the recent messages entered by UNITEX, there hasn't
CL> > been any traffic in this Conference for months?! ......
CL> >
CL> > Has this echo moved on to another name or systems?
CL> >
CL> >
CL> > James Waldron, UNITEX Moderator?
CL> >
CL> >
CL> I've wondered about this myself. Along with ECOCHAT and NATIVE,
CL>GRNCHAT has been *Dead* for months it seems, except for your
CL>postings to which I don't usually respond since they are more
CL>information bulletins rather than conversational topics. They
CL>are of interest, but don't spark in me an immediate response.
CL>
CL>I thought this was the Green Party echo . . . if so, where are
CL>the members of the Green Party who presumably started it? I'm
CL>completely baffled, personally, and have no explanation to offer.
CL>(But it's nice to see you're still here.) :)
CL>
CL>Cindy.
I think the GP net originates from London and GRNCHAT was it's
counterpart in Canada.....I'm not sure about this. Doug may
have a better feel for what's happened to this group or where
they 'disappered' to. If there was a gateway between the Green Party
network in London and the Internet, we could arrange to get the
'original' material over to Fidonet. Is there any way to
reach the GP net or GEONET rom Canada? I'll CC this to Doug,
perhaps he has some answers.
The GREEN PARTY (actual poltitcal party with representation)
is in Germany. I'm sure there are several Fidonet echos on or related
to the GREEN PARTY in Germany but probably not in english and
not zonegated to us.
Thanks for replying... perhaps we can restore some 'life'
here' again
Jim
--- ConfMail V3.31
* Origin: UNITEX --> Toward a United Species (1:107/501)
SEEN-BY: 107/501 535 701 221/162
*** This is a reply to #62.
