From:    Marty Leipzig
To:      Ron Stringfellow                       Oct-29-93 18:09:24
Subject: Mammal-like reptiles

Ron Stringfellow, dreaming of seeing the Great Karroo, said to Marty Leipzig:

 RS> Hello god marty,

 ML>      Well, Ron, in the Therapsids there are animals that are
 ML>      variously classified as "mammal-like reptiles" or

 RS> being classified as mammal like reptiles is not being
 RS> classified mammals.

     Ron the Obtuse, are you just ignoring the remainder of my
     rather extraordinarily descriptive post regarding the Therapsida
     and the modes and methods of taxonomy, or is it that you're
     just too dense to understand the message?

     I'll wager it's the latter.

 ML>      all classes of vertebrates. To answer your next obvious
 ML>      question, the vertebrates arose from the Tunicates (like
 ML>      _Amphioxius_). Next...

 RS> Well??? Go on , I'm wanting to see where you slgh's
                                                  ^^^^
     ? Supremely logical godless humans. Fine, fine.

 RS> get life from
 RS> non-life... next...

     Well, Ron the Vacuous, for fear of you ignoring my response (or
     you being just too thick to follow a logical argument); here
     follows a brief exposition on the question of biopoesis (look
     it up, Ronzo, don't expect to be spoon fed on every question).

     Biopoesis, or the origination of life on Earth. As evidenced by
     abundant evidence, from the fossil record, geology and
     laboratory experiments (Urey and Miller, etc.), amino acids and
     nucleotide bases, the building blocks of proteins and nucleic
     acids, form by natural chemistry under a variety of simulated
     primordial Earth conditions. What has yet to be determined is
     the exact chemical processes by which these essential organic
     ingredients were developed into the first molecules capable of
     self-replication, AT WHICH POINT NATURAL SELECTION OR ORGANIC
     EVOLUTION COULD BEGIN. (So much for your objection to the fact
     that evolution says NOTHING WHATSOEVER about origins and your
     continual harping about origins and evolution.)

     The early atmosphere of the Earth was quite different than that
     today. It was enriched in nitrogen, water vapor, hydrogen and
     carbon dioxide (purely geological information here, Ronzo the
     Obtuse, read the rocks). There was no free oxygen, as oxygen
     was a by-product of early cellular respiration. Life cannot
     form today because it would be immediately destroyed by
     oxidation.

     Life is merely the product, derived from inorganic (non-life,
     as you so pejoratively put it) components, over the span of
     geologic time, of a step-by-step process, governed by the
     natural laws of chemistry, with no particular amino acid
     sequence required. The same holds true for nucleic acids. It
     did not have to be comprised of any particular nucleotide
     sequence, but only had to be SOME sequence, whose probability
     of arising over a period of millions of years is unity.

     There is a question of the mode of this assembly (believe it or
     else, Ronzo, science doesn't profess to have all the answers....
     yet.)

    Theories include those built on protobiogenesis experiments
    carried out by Sid Fox at the U of Florida (proteinoid
    microspheres...want a few references to check this out?), Graham
    Cairns-Smith argues for clay mineralogy providing the template
    for self-replicating forms (want some references?), B. McKean
    argues that abiogenesis may have occurred near deep sea vents
    (want some...oh, never mind). Tom Cech and Sid Altman note that
    RNA (ribonucleic acid) can act as an enzyme, and as such was
    probably the link between prebiotic synthesis and the first
    living cells.

    All the evidence supports the view that the precursors of life
    arose quite naturally (no god or gods necessary), and that
    life's emergence, given millions of years and the whole Earth as
    a laboratory was a probable, if not inevitable, event.

    So, Ronzoid, what exactly is your problem in understand this?
    The same problem that causes you to selectively read only those
    messages that don't tax your single synapse?

    Thought so.


... As you follow life's highway, you're guided by a yellow streak.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12
 * Origin: A Little Corner in Time BBS (1:106/113.0)