From:    Jeff Doles
To:      All                                    94-04-05 13:%:00
Subject: DNA Dating

  Anyway -- this morning I downloaded the following article (along with
  a few other aritcles from -Creation Ex Nihilo-, a publication by ICR)
  on DNA dating.

  I do not know enough about DNA to really understand what is what.  I
  would appreciate a critique of the argument put forth in this article
  -- where it is accurate, where it is inaccurate, what the implications
  are.

========================================================================

  SCIENCE SPOT

  DNA dating:
  Fascinating evidence that the fossils are young

  Carl Wieland, M.B., B.S.
  ------------------------

  DNA, the complex molecule of heredity, can he observed in the
  lahoratory to hydrolyse (break down) by itself. We have already
  commented in Cleation magazine on the discovery of DNA in magnolia
  leaf fossils which are supposed to be around 20 million years old
  according to evolutionary assumptions, and suggested that this seemed
  rather unbelievable for a complicated molecule which progressively
  disintegrates all hy itself (Vol. 13 No. 2, pp. 22-23).

  Now Brian Sykes in the prestigious journal "Nature" clearly states
  that the rate at which DNA breaks down in the laboratory is such that
  after 10,000 years no DNA should be left. Writing ahout the magnolia
  leaf fossils (and others in the same 'ancient' layer found to also
  have DNA, including oak, cypress and tulip tree fossils) he says:

  'This means these compression fossils defy the prediction, from in
  vitro estimates of the rate of spontaneous hydrolysis, that no DNA
  would remain intact much beyond 10,000 years. What a good job not
  every body knew that, grant reviewers included."

  One can clearly see the following sequence of logic in evolutionary
  circles, which is important to keep in mind now that we are seeing
  more and more reports of 'ancient' DNA (and proteins).

  1. In the ahsence of the repair machinery of a living cell, DNA breaks
  down, by itself, at an observed, measurable rate which would mean that
  after 10,000 years there should be none left.

  2. Therefore, any specimen which has DNA still in it cannot be more
  than 10,000 years old. However:

  3. Intact DNA has been found in specimens which evolutionists 'know'
  to be millions of years old. (Because it is found in layers which,
  according to the geological age-dating system, are assigned this
  age--17-20 million years in the case of the Plant fossils mentionted
  here.)

  4. If this system of vast ages is not correct, the whole evolutionary
  scenario collapses.

  5. Therefore, the logical deduction in the first two points above
  (based on real science--that is, an observable process) must he
  flawed. There must be some special conditions which can somehow 'hold
  up' the breakdown of DNA quite dramatically.

  Notice how point 3 brings in the assumption/belief that the vast
  evolutionary age assigned to these fossils is correct. That helief
  becomes the justification for discarding the -prima facie-
  implications of the laboratory data.

  Creationists who maintain that none of the fossil-bearing layers are
  more than 10000 years old can rightly view the finding of DNA in such
  layers as positive evidence for this assertion until and unless there
  is some definite demonstration (apart from pre-existing belief in
  evolutions long ages) of how any conceivahle 'special conditions' can
  holdup the breakdown of this complicated fragile chemical.

  REFERENCE

  Brian Sykes in Nature, vol. 352, August 1, p. 381. In context his
  statement is sarcastic. Sykes is not denying that the fossils are
  multimillions of years old. He is saying that if the inferences from
  laboratory data had been completely trusted no one would have bothered
  to look lor DNA in such old sediments. The fact that it exists is to
  him evidence that the inferences were wrong not the age.

  Creation Ex Nihilo, Vol. 14 No. 3
  Reprinted with permission of the Institure for Creation Research,
  P.O. Box 2667, El Cajon, CA 92021-0667 619-448-0900.