From:    Onar Aam                               
To:      All                                    Msg #55, Feb-28-93 10:43PM
Subject: Re: Ted's intent.

Organization: Rogaland University Centre
From: onar@hsr.no (Onar Aam)
Message-ID: <1993Mar1.064345.9766@hsr.no>
Newsgroups: talk.origins


>The problem which most educated people have with creationism is that it seems
>to imply that Jerry Falwell, Billy Graham, Oral Roberts et. al. are right,
>and that the universe itself, including earth, was created by some ultimate
>prototype of the white-Anglo/Saxon Protestant ideal with a Teddy Roosavelt
>smile and an El-Producto cigar in his mouth, along with omnipotence, 
>omniscience, and all the rest.

I can't believe that you are saying this. Many scientists who have contributed to
the theory of evolution have been and are christians. Many of these were in
the light of the convincing evidence forced to refute Genesis as a model. I.e.
they accepted evolution because of the startling evidence, not because those
bastard evilutionists joined in a conspiracy to infiltrate the world with the
evil of atheism.  

>I do not see a way for man to have risen via a long chain of violations of
>the second law of thermodynamics from dust, even with Velikovsky's help.

Violation of the second law? Please explain. 

Wait! Is it the "entropy always increases" argument?

Then please take a look at this:

Let's say you have a closed box in which you insert two gases, H and H S. 
                                                                2     2 
Initially the gases are separated, i.e. ordered. If you leave the gases to
themselves they will gradually mix, i.e. become more disordered. Right?
This was an experiment which is in allignment of the 2nd law. The system is
approximately closed because no matter entered or left the box and because no
thermal energy escaped or entered the box. The result was ever increasing
entropy. 


BUT lets now assume that we heat up one side of the box and cool down the other
side. i.e energy is pooring into the system. What happens? Well, the internal
kinetic energy of both gases increases on the hot side and decreases on the
cold side. The internal energy is given by the equation E= 1/2mv^2. Both gases
will get the same internal energy on each side respectively. But since the two
gases have different masses the hydrogen gas will have a greater internal
velocity than the hydrogensulfide. What effect does this have on the gases? In
short:

On the hot side the hydrogen gas gets such a great velocity that it bounces 
over
to the cold side more than the hydrogensulfide does. And the hydrogensulfide on
the cold side is being pushed over to the warm side by the hydrogen gas. And
what is the result?  

The two gases have separated!!! And the entropy of the system has decreased. If
you don't believe it then try it out yourself. 

But doesn't this violate the 2nd law? Nope. You see, the box is no longer a
closed system. It's an open system. But don't worry, the decrease in entropy 
is 
very local. The entropy that was produced when we heated up the one side and 
cooled the other side more than compensated for the decrease in the box. 

The same argument goes for life and evolution itself. If you stop the flow of 
energy and matter into biological systems they will collapse. By doing this 
you 
approximate a closed system. But of course, biological systems aren't closed. 
They're open: we drink, breath, eat, shit and urinate. Still believe that 
evolution violates the 2nd law?