The cure for cults that want to deny others
their freedom of speech is more freedom of speech
-- Fredric Rice

---

Creationist Cults

Creationists cults engage in the same denial behavior as Holocaust deniers, chiropractors and astrologers. The mindset of denial of the overwhelming evidence which debunks their occult notions is evident in all four classes of delusional belief systems. The ability to deny what their own senses tell them seems to result in cognitive dissonance which results in frankly insane behavior, according to my observations of the phenomena.

It's been decades since I determine that creationists and Holocaust deniers share many of the same dysfunctional attributes and I've written on the subject on the Internet for at least two decades -- going back to before the Internet became widely open to the general public, in fact.

Not long ago, Mr. Michael Shermer of the Skeptics Society published his own evaluation of the mindset phenomena which Holocaust Deniers took some considerable exception to -- because Mr. Shermer's summations of these racist neo-Nazis was undeniably factual.

To exhibit once again -- in their own words -- just how like Holycaust deniers are in relationship to their creationist brothers and sisters, I've collected a single discussion of Mr. Shermer's work which was posted to the sci.skeptic newsgroup and cross posted to a number of different newsgroups. I myself did not participate in the discussion since I did not want to pollute the issues with my own observations and since I long ago recognized the futility of debating historic and scientific fact with those who refuse to employ reason. And Holocaust deniers, astrologers, creationists, and chiropractor believers all refuse to employ reason in a broad spectrum of ways. - Fredric L. Rice, July, 2002.


From: wolfgang1488@yahoo.com (Wolfgang Streicher)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.jewish,alt.atheism,talk.atheism,sci.skeptic
Subject: Holocaust Revisionism and Creationism Have Nothing In Common
Date: 4 Jul 2002 23:07:01 -0700

The media like it or not is mostly Jewish controlled. So it will try to portray Aryan nationalists and revisionists as Christian creationist crackpots. In fact nothing could be further from the truth. I am no Christian and wasn't raised up as one either. I want a free Aryan nation and I can't stand the Jews. But for most of us nationalists it's all about race, not religion. I don't hate Christians but I don't see how anyone could swallow the Creationist fairy tale, anymore than the Holohoax fairy tale. Wolfgang Streicher.

Holocaust Revisionism and Creationism:
Shermer's Faulty Analogy

By Paul Grubach

In his regular column of the February 2002 issue of Scientific American, Dr. Michael Shermer, one of Holocaust revisionism's most dedicated opponents, claimed that Holocaust revisionism (or, as he labels it, "Holocaust denial") is on par with and in the same league with Creationism (or, as he labels it, "evolution denial"). As we shall soon see, this is an excellent example the fallacy of "faulty analogy."

Regarding evolutionary theory, Shermer stated: "The preponderance of evidence from numerous converging lines of inquiry (geology, paleontology, zoology, botany, comparative anatomy, genetics, biogeography, etc.) all independently point to the same conclusion--evolution happened. The nineteenth century philosopher of science, William Whewell, called this process of independent lines of inquiry converging together to a conclusion a 'consillience of inductions.' I call it a 'convergence of evidence.' Whatever you call it, it is how historical events are proven."

Shermer then added that "evolution denial [is] the doppelganger of Holocaust denial, using the same techniques of rhetoric and debate--see my book--Why People Believe Weird Things--for a comparison..."

Here, Shermer is implying that the traditional view of the Holocaust is based upon the same type of solid scientific evidence that evolutionary theory is based on. Just as the different forms of scientific evidence converge on the conclusion that evolution happened, so too, the different forms of evidence converge on the conclusion that "the Holocaust happened."

This is an excellent example of the fallacy of "faulty analogy," because the supposedly analogous things have more differences than similarities.

Evolutionary theory is indeed based upon scientific evidence from botany, zoology, embryology, etc. (Even Creationists own up to much of the scientific evidence, but they will give a different interpretation to that evidence.) The traditional view of the Holocaust has absolutely no scientific evidence to bolster it. At the first "Holocaust" trial of German-born publisher Ernst Zundel, the premier Holocaust historian Raul Hilberg admitted that there is no scientific evidence to support the existence of the "Hitler gas chambers."1

At the famous Irving-Lipstadt libel trial in London in winter-spring 2000, it was shown once again that there is no scientific evidence to prove the existence of the "Auschwitz gas chambers."2 In fact, Holocaust revisionist scholars have shown that the the traditional view of the Holocaust is based on extremely dubious "eyewitness testimony," forced confessions, confessions taken under duress, and documents with equivocal meanings. Evolutionary theory is not based upon questionable "eyewitness testimony," forced confessions, confessions taken under duress, and the dubious interpretation of equivocal Nazi documents.

Nor can Shermer use a "convergence of evidence" to prove the traditional view of the Holocaust, because it has been shown that one can come to false conclusions using the traditional evidence to "prove" the Holocaust."3

For a thorough discussion of these issues, the reader is referred to my two essays that expose the fallacies, errors, omissions and falsehoods in the work of Michael Shermer.4

NOTES

1. "Scientific evidence of Holocaust missing," The Sault Star, January 18, 1985, p.A-11. The article is reprinted in Michael A. Hoffman II, The Great Holocaust Trial, 3rd ed., (Wiswell Ruffin House, 1995), p.88.

2. For a discussion of this matter with appropriate documentation, see Paul Grubach, "Convergence of Evidence: Reflections on the Irving-Lipstadt Affair," online: http://www.codoh.org/revisionist/tr09irving.html

3. Ibid.

4. See Paul Grubach, "A Revisionist Response to Shermerian Exterminationism, Part I: Why Does Michael Shermer Weird Beliefs About the Holocaust?," online: http://vho.org/GB/c/PG/111200.html. Paul Grubach, "In Defense of Holocaust Revisionism: A Response to Shermer and Grobman's Denying History," online: http://www.codoh.org/revisionist/review/tr09denyhist.html.

http://www.codoh.org/revisionist/tr12creation.html


From: "Herb Martin" <HerbM@LearnQuick.Com>
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.jewish,alt.atheism,talk.atheism,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Holocaust Revisionism and Creationism Have Nothing In Common
Date: Fri, 05 Jul 2002 07:09:46 GMT

> truth. I am no Christian and wasn't raised up as one either. I want a
> free Aryan nation and I can't stand the Jews. But for most of us

This just makes you an idiot or a troll.

Anyone who would want some type of fascist, intolerant state built on prejudice is so far beyond foolish it insults the merely stupid.

--
Herb Martin
Try ADDS for great Weather too:
http://adds.aviationweather.noaa.gov/projects/adds


From: wolfgang1488@yahoo.com (Wolfgang Streicher)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.jewish,alt.atheism,talk.atheism,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Holocaust Revisionism and Creationism Have Nothing In Common
Date: 5 Jul 2002 13:08:51 -0700

You are against a fascist intolerant state built on prejudice. So that would mean you are against Israel right? Come on tell us Hebrew Herbie.

Wolfgang Streicher.


From: "Herb Martin" <HerbM@LearnQuick.Com>
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.jewish,alt.atheism,talk.atheism,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Holocaust Revisionism and Creationism Have Nothing In Common
Date: Sat, 06 Jul 2002 00:12:41 GMT

> You are against a fascist intolerant state built on prejudice. So that
> would mean you are against Israel right? Come on tell us Hebrew
> Herbie. Wolfgang Streicher.

Were any of the above paragraphy true then....

Wait a minute, if ANY of it were true, it would be an entirely differenct paragraph.

Israel? There is ZERO evidence that Israel would do anything other than be a good neighbor were the Arab countries and the terrorists to leave Israel in peace.

Egypt and Jordan have nothing to fear since they stopped their aggression.

Arab citizens OF Israel elect (Arab) citizens to the Knesset.

Even if there were any truth in your rant, the true prejudice is hating a group (Jews) because they are born into that group (Jews.)

Why do you hate the (average) Jews? (We get that you hate Israel, but why Jews in general?)

Herb Martin
Try ADDS for great Weather too:
http://adds.aviationweather.noaa.gov/projects/adds


From: "Adam Helberg" <helberga@earthlink.net>
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.jewish,alt.atheism,talk.atheism,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Holocaust Revisionism and Creationism Have Nothing In Common

OK Wolfgang. You're not a creationist. You're a anti-Semitic, bigoted, racist, Holocaust-denying evolutionist. Feel better now?

Adam


From: "Kurt Knoll" <kknoll@monarch.net>
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.jewish,alt.atheism,talk.atheism,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Holocaust Revisionism and Creationism Have Nothing In Common
Date: Fri, 5 Jul 2002 08:06:17 -0700

How much truth is there to your holohoax Helberg ? Is anyone that does not trust the Jew anti Semite ?.

Kurt Knoll.


From: "Jan Pieter Verhey" <janpieter.verhey@12move.nl>
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.jewish,alt.atheism,talk.atheism,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Holocaust Revisionism and Creationism Have Nothing In Common
Date: Fri, 5 Jul 2002 22:20:52 +0200

"Kurt Knoll" <kknoll@monarch.net> wrote in message news:1025882444.835062@critter.monarch.net...

> How much truth is there to your holohoax Helberg ? Is anyone that does
> not trust the Jew anti Semite ?.

You're a little parrot troll.


From: knight@indystart.com (Black Knight)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.jewish,alt.atheism,talk.atheism,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Holocaust Revisionism and Creationism Have Nothing In Common
Date: 5 Jul 2002 11:17:04 -0700

"Adam Helberg" <helberga@earthlink.net> wrote in message news:<PNbV8.944$A43.84232@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>...
> OK Wolfgang. You're not a creationist. You're a anti-Semitic, bigoted,
> racist, Holocaust-denying evolutionist. Feel better now?

> Adam

PSSST! You forgot "stupid".

Bruno


From: "Kurt Knoll" <kknoll@monarch.net>
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.jewish,alt.atheism,talk.atheism,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Holocaust Revisionism and Creationism Have Nothing In Common
Date: Fri, 5 Jul 2002 12:08:58 -0700

Yes Bruno and we all know what you are.

Kurt Knoll.


From: knight@indystart.com (Black Knight)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.jewish,alt.atheism,talk.atheism,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Holocaust Revisionism and Creationism Have Nothing In Common
Date: 6 Jul 2002 04:07:10 -0700

"Kurt Knoll" <kknoll@monarch.net> wrote in message news:<1025897009.297336@critter.monarch.net>...

> Yes Bruno and we all know what you are.

> Kurt Knoll.

There is no "we", you ignorant, illiterate, bigoted piece of shit. There is only you and your stupid brother running off at the mouth and being laughed at continuously for the fools you are. As far as I can determine, you don't know anything.

Bruno


From: "Kurt Knoll" <kknoll@monarch.net>
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.jewish,alt.atheism,talk.atheism,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Holocaust Revisionism and Creationism Have Nothing In Common
Date: Sat, 6 Jul 2002 05:34:22 -0700

That's normal for a Jew like you as the saying goes you can fool some people some time but you can not fool all the people all the time. You must be dreaming most people will not tell you if they do not trust you but the word gets out maybe it will be too late till you find out.

Kurt Knoll.


From: knight@indystart.com (Black Knight)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.jewish,alt.atheism,talk.atheism,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Holocaust Revisionism and Creationism Have Nothing In Common
Date: 7 Jul 2002 08:57:05 -0700

"Kurt Knoll" <kknoll@monarch.net> wrote in message news:<1025959737.74277@critter.monarch.net>...

> That's normal for a Jew like you as the saying goes you can fool some > people some time but you can not fool all the people all the time. You > must be dreaming most people will not tell you if they do not trust you > but the word gets out maybe it will be too late till you find out.

> Kurt Knoll.

Why don't you take a poll and find out if anyone on this ng believes anything you say, idiot? Of course, you are lying again-people on USENET are very frank about not trusting someone. You are the one who makes preposterous statements that he cannot substantiate with facts. I would not trust you to take out the trash. You have neither the intellect nor the integrity required for that job.

Bruno


From: "Kurt Knoll" <kknoll@monarch.net>
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.jewish,alt.atheism,talk.atheism,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Holocaust Revisionism and Creationism Have Nothing In Common
Date: Sun, 7 Jul 2002 09:42:45 -0700

The Usenet is not a standard but I admit you have infected a lot of cowboys.

kk


From: buyensl@interlacken.com (Lorrill Buyens)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.jewish,alt.atheism,talk.atheism,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Holocaust Revisionism and Creationism Have Nothing In Common
Date: Tue, 09 Jul 2002 00:22:07 GMT

Right before "Kurt Knoll" <kknoll@monarch.net> was eaten by cannibals on Sun, 7 Jul 2002 09:42:45 -0700, they issued this poignant cry for help:

>The Usenet is not a standard but I admit you have infected a lot of
>cowboys.

YEEEEEE-HAW! Let's round those bigots up an' BRAND 'em, boys...

--
"There can be only one Silly Vampire Programme, and 'It
is I, Count Homogenized' has had that title sewn up since
about 1978..."
- Dave Joll, in rec.arts.drwho


From: wolfgang1488@yahoo.com (Wolfgang Streicher)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.jewish,alt.atheism,talk.atheism,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Holocaust Revisionism and Creationism Have Nothing In Common
Date: 5 Jul 2002 13:12:09 -0700

Yes I am not Christian nor were my parents. But I still don't like you Jews. That should tell you something.

Why you Jews are hated has nothing to do with religion. It has to do with you sneaking in and undermining societies. It is a racial issue that will be dealt with. When National Socialism rises again and it will.

Wolfgang Streicher.

"Adam Helberg" <helberga@earthlink.net> wrote in message news:<PNbV8.944$A43.84232@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>...

> OK Wolfgang. You're not a creationist. You're a anti-Semitic, bigoted,
> racist, Holocaust-denying evolutionist. Feel better now?

> Adam


From: " Jason James" <stratosphere2@bigpond.com>
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.jewish,alt.atheism,talk.atheism,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Holocaust Revisionism and Creationism Have Nothing In Common
Date: Sat, 6 Jul 2002 06:34:59 +1000

"Wolfgang Streicher" <wolfgang1488@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:16c94fdb.0207051212.42478ba4@posting.google.com...
> Yes I am not Christian nor were my parents. But I still don't like you
> Jews. That should tell you something.

> Why you Jews are hated has nothing to do with religion. It has to do
> with you sneaking in and undermining societies. It is a racial issue
> that will be dealt with. When National Socialism rises again and it
> will.

> Wolfgang Streicher.

When 'National Socialism rises again'. You live in Cuckoo land. The only national socialists that will exist again are those present examples: skin-heads and semi literate morons, plus the ocassional 'academic' who permanently relegates himself to academic obscurity for his nuts ideas.

Jason James


From: wolfgang1488@yahoo.com (Wolfgang Streicher)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.jewish,alt.atheism,talk.atheism,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Holocaust Revisionism and Creationism Have Nothing In Common
Date: 5 Jul 2002 19:42:33 -0700

Jew-boy James even the Jewish Anti-Defamation League has admitted that National Socialism is on the rise, yet again. The growth/electoral rise of the British National Party, Vlaams Blok, Freedom Party, Front National, NDP, Pamyat, etc. all point to this. Especially in Europe there is a general drift to the "far right". You are the one in cloud cuckoo land. No wonder you are "down under". Where the Brits sent all their crooks and mental rejects. No offense to the good Aussie nationalists down there, but you have a lot of "cleaning up" to do!!! Then again so do we Germans.

Wolfgang Streicher.


From: "George Black" <gblack@ihug.co.nz>
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.jewish,alt.atheism,talk.atheism,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Holocaust Revisionism and Creationism Have Nothing In Common
Date: Sat, 6 Jul 2002 08:37:32 +1200

"Wolfgang Streicher" <wolfgang1488@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:16c94fdb.0207051212.42478ba4@posting.google.com...
> Yes I am not Christian nor were my parents. But I still don't like you
> Jews. That should tell you something.
> Why you Jews are hated has nothing to do with religion. It has to do
> with you sneaking in and undermining societies. It is a racial issue
> that will be dealt with. When National Socialism rises again and it
> will.
> Wolfgang Streicher.

And once again you (National Socialists) will get your arses kicked but the next time you will be the outcasts of society and all the world will know you once again for the abomination that you are. Those of you who survive the war that is......


From: " Jason James" <stratosphere2@bigpond.com>
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.jewish,alt.atheism,talk.atheism,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Holocaust Revisionism and Creationism Have Nothing In Common
Date: Sat, 6 Jul 2002 08:24:11 +1000

"George Black" <gblack@ihug.co.nz> wrote in message news:ag4vuf$n8r$1@lust.ihug.co.nz...

> "Wolfgang Streicher" <wolfgang1488@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:16c94fdb.0207051212.42478ba4@posting.google.com...
> > Yes I am not Christian nor were my parents. But I still don't like you
> > Jews. That should tell you something.
> > Why you Jews are hated has nothing to do with religion. It has to do
> > with you sneaking in and undermining societies. It is a racial issue
> > that will be dealt with. When National Socialism rises again and it
> > will.
> > Wolfgang Streicher.
> And once again you (National Socialists) will get your arses kicked but the
> next time you will be the outcasts of society and all the world will know
> you once again for the abomination that you are.
> Those of you who survive the war that is......

Somehow I doubt very much whether they will ever re-emerge with sufficient numbers to be a credible force again. The world ha learnt from the past,..we hope.

Jason James


From: Orac <Orac@wabcmail.com>
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.jewish,alt.atheism,talk.atheism,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Holocaust Revisionism and Creationism Have Nothing In Common
Date: Fri, 05 Jul 2002 18:20:34 -0400

In article <16c94fdb.0207051212.42478ba4@posting.google.com>,
wolfgang1488@yahoo.com (Wolfgang Streicher) wrote:

> Yes I am not Christian nor were my parents. But I still don't like you
> Jews. That should tell you something.

It tells me you're a garden variety bigot trying to tart up his bigotry with grandiose-sounding words.

> Why you Jews are hated has nothing to do with religion. It has to do
> with you sneaking in and undermining societies. It is a racial issue
> that will be dealt with. When National Socialism rises again and it
> will.

And if it does it will be crushed even more thoroughly than it was last time.

--
Orac |"A statement of fact cannot be insolent."
|
|"If you cannot listen to the answers, why do you
| inconvenience me with questions?"


From: Marc Fleury <marcfleury@sympatico.ca>
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.jewish,alt.atheism,talk.atheism,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Holocaust Revisionism and Creationism Have Nothing In Common
Date: Sat, 06 Jul 2002 01:41:27 -0400

wolfgang1488@yahoo.com (Wolfgang Streicher) wrote:

>I still don't like you Jews. That should tell you something.

So ... the holocaust never happened, but you *wish* that it did? Why don't we all just "pretend" that it did, and everyone will be happy.

--
Marc.

Comics begin at panel 1 ... PANEL1.COM

http://www.panel1.com


From: "Kurt Knoll" <kknoll@monarch.net>
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.jewish,alt.atheism,talk.atheism,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Holocaust Revisionism and Creationism Have Nothing In Common
Date: Sat, 6 Jul 2002 05:36:25 -0700

Don't tell the Creeks the jews stole the word holocaust from the creek to make a business out of it.

Kurt Knoll.


Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.jewish,alt.atheism,talk.atheism,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Holocaust Revisionism and Creationism Have Nothing In Common
From: William Daffer <whdaffer@wabcmail.com>
Date: Sat, 06 Jul 2002 16:21:11 GMT

"Kurt Knoll" <kknoll@monarch.net> writes:

> Don't tell the Creeks the jews stole the word holocaust from the creek
> to make a business out of it.

The Creek Indians coined the word Holocaust? Now that's news.

whd
--
Right. We should stop using the term "anti-semites" on the grounds it
was invented by Jew haters so their opinions could look like an
ideology instead of a pathology.
Joseph Hertzlinger


From: "Wolf333" <wolfe333@nospam.com>
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.jewish,alt.atheism,talk.atheism,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Holocaust Revisionism and Creationism Have Nothing In Common
Date: Fri, 5 Jul 2002 05:45:56 -0500

"Wolfgang Streicher" <wolfgang1488@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:16c94fdb.0207042207.6b2de59a@posting.google.com...
> The media like it or not is mostly Jewish controlled. So it will try
> to portray Aryan nationalists and revisionists as Christian
> creationist crackpots. In fact nothing could be further from the
> truth. I am no Christian and wasn't raised up as one either. I want a
> free Aryan nation and I can't stand the Jews. But for most of us
> nationalists it's all about race, not religion. I don't hate
> Christians but I don't see how anyone could swallow the Creationist
> fairy tale, anymore than the Holohoax fairy tale.
> Wolfgang Streicher.

A fundy is a fundy is a fundy...

So tell me, wolfgang... In a free aryan nation, would I be free to have jewish friends? To read books by jewish authors? To date and marry a jewish girl? No? Doesn't sound too free to me.

snip white supremist shit
____
+++ Divide By Cucumber Error. Please Reinstall Universe And Reboot+++
Michael Wolfe
AA# 1912
First Ammendment Scholar
EAC Assistant to the Deputy Secretary of Alternative Food Sources
____


From: "R.J.Goldman" <rgoldman@bellsouth.net>
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.jewish,alt.atheism,talk.atheism,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Holocaust Revisionism and Creationism Have Nothing In Common
Date: Fri, 5 Jul 2002 06:58:23 -0400

OL'e Wolfy has got issues,
he needs to restock the Tin foil very soon!


Date: Fri, 05 Jul 2002 10:38:42 -0400
From: Colin Day <colinday@telocity.com>
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.jewish,alt.atheism,talk.atheism,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Holocaust Revisionism and Creationism Have Nothing In Common

"R.J.Goldman" wrote:

> OL'e Wolfy has got issues,
> he needs to restock the Tin foil very soon!

Which Wolfy?

Colin Day


From: wolfgang1488@yahoo.com (Wolfgang Streicher)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.jewish,alt.atheism,talk.atheism,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Holocaust Revisionism and Creationism Have Nothing In Common
Date: 5 Jul 2002 13:02:16 -0700

Goldie Goldman if you Jews are so big and bad why did six million of you let yourself be gassed without a fight. Oh wait that never happened. You would have bribed your way out of anything it Goldie Goldman. You love Money more than your own Mother. Wolfgang Streicher.


From: "Jan Pieter Verhey" <janpieter.verhey@12move.nl>
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.jewish,alt.atheism,talk.atheism,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Holocaust Revisionism and Creationism Have Nothing In Common
Date: Fri, 5 Jul 2002 22:17:47 +0200

"Wolfgang Streicher" <wolfgang1488@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:16c94fdb.0207051202.74a8fe96@posting.google.com...

> Goldie Goldman if you Jews are so big and bad why did six million of
> you let yourself be gassed without a fight.

Shame on you.

> Oh wait that never happened.

Yes it did, fool.

>You would have bribed your way out of
> anything it Goldie Goldman. You love Money more than your own Mother.

You're too young to know anything.


From: Orac <Orac@wabcmail.com>
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.jewish,alt.atheism,talk.atheism,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Holocaust Revisionism and Creationism Have Nothing In Common
Date: Fri, 05 Jul 2002 18:17:39 -0400

In article <16c94fdb.0207051202.74a8fe96@posting.google.com>,
wolfgang1488@yahoo.com (Wolfgang Streicher) wrote:

> Goldie Goldman if you Jews are so big and bad why did six million of
> you let yourself be gassed without a fight.

Wolfie, if the "Aryan race" was so big and bad, why is it always whining about how the Jews supposedly control finance, the government, and the media? After all, Jews ARE a tiny fraction of the population.

--
Orac |"A statement of fact cannot be insolent."
|
|"If you cannot listen to the answers, why do you
| inconvenience me with questions?"


From: "GoDrex" <godrex33@hotmail.com>
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.jewish,alt.atheism,talk.atheism,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Holocaust Revisionism and Creationism Have Nothing In Common
Date: Sat, 06 Jul 2002 02:03:04 GMT

"Orac" <Orac@wabcmail.com> wrote in message
news:Orac-079F6C.18173905072002@news.srv.hcvlny.cv.net...
> In article <16c94fdb.0207051202.74a8fe96@posting.google.com>,
> wolfgang1488@yahoo.com (Wolfgang Streicher) wrote:
>
> > Goldie Goldman if you Jews are so big and bad why did six million of
> > you let yourself be gassed without a fight.
>
> Wolfie, if the "Aryan race" was so big and bad, why is it always whining
> about how the Jews supposedly control finance, the government, and the
> media? After all, Jews ARE a tiny fraction of the population.

he's still thinking about that one. right now somewhere his puny little mind is imploding.


From: wolfgang1488@yahoo.com (Wolfgang Streicher)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.jewish,alt.atheism,talk.atheism,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Holocaust Revisionism and Creationism Have Nothing In Common
Date: 6 Jul 2002 16:32:07 -0700

So you pull out a Strawman! Or can you ever argue without placing words in our mouth and spouting falsehood. Jews have strong control over all that you mention, that is a fact, we do not whine about it. We merely assess the truth and research a Solution. It is also a fact that we will be able to achieve freedom from that Control. Racial and ethnic struggles are what drive the force of history. Wahrheit breaks the bonds of tyrants and is liberation for the Nation. Wolfgang Streicher.


From: Orac <Orac@wabcmail.com>
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.jewish,alt.atheism,talk.atheism,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Holocaust Revisionism and Creationism Have Nothing In Common
Date: Sat, 06 Jul 2002 21:40:15 -0400

In article <16c94fdb.0207061532.6008cc07@posting.google.com>,
wolfgang1488@yahoo.com (Wolfgang Streicher) wrote:

> So you pull out a Strawman! Or can you ever argue without placing
> words in our mouth and spouting falsehood.

Not at all. Is it not one of your complaints as an "Aryan" nationalist that Jews control finance, government, and the media?

Oh, wait. Below you just admit that you think Jews control all three of these things.

>Jews have strong control
> over all that you mention, that is a fact, we do not whine about it.

Of course you do. You're doing it now.

Again, the question is: If you big bad Aryan nationalists are so tough and smart, and "Aryan" culture is the height of civilization yet achieved by mankind, then how is it that you allow Jews, which represent a very tiny proportion of the population, to control all these things?

> We merely assess the truth and research a Solution. It is also a fact
> that we will be able to achieve freedom from that Control.

Not with clowns like you leading the charge...

>Racial and
> ethnic struggles are what drive the force of history.

And look what such struggles have caused in the last 100 years. Not a pretty sight. Such a "racial" struggle started by your hero Adolf Hitler resulted in the deaths of close to 50 million people and the utter destruction of his country Germany, as well as the enslavement of half of his country for fifty-four years by the very Bolshevists who were his enemies.

Not a good track record, is it?

> Wahrheit breaks the bonds of tyrants and is liberation for the Nation.

You mean the way Hitler's actions led to the destruction of Germany and the enslavement of most of its people for over a half century?

--
Orac |"A statement of fact cannot be insolent."
|
|"If you cannot listen to the answers, why do you
| inconvenience me with questions?"


From: "Herb Martin" <HerbM@LearnQuick.Com>
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.jewish,alt.atheism,talk.atheism,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Holocaust Revisionism and Creationism Have Nothing In Common
Date: Sat, 06 Jul 2002 00:16:09 GMT

> Goldie Goldman if you Jews are so big and bad why did six million of
> you let yourself be gassed without a fight.

Because they were first "good citizens" and let their firearms be confiscated.

Because they trusted their government. Because they didn't believe that a 'leader' like hitler could be so evil and despotic and even then, they didn't believe a population would be evil enough to support him or be cowardly enough to go along.

Herb Martin
Try ADDS for great Weather too:
http://adds.aviationweather.noaa.gov/projects/adds


From: "GoDrex" <godrex33@hotmail.com>
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.jewish,alt.atheism,talk.atheism,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Holocaust Revisionism and Creationism Have Nothing In Common
Date: Sat, 06 Jul 2002 02:01:24 GMT

"Wolfgang Streicher" <wolfgang1488@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:16c94fdb.0207051202.74a8fe96@posting.google.com...

> Goldie Goldman if you Jews are so big and bad why did six million of
> you let yourself be gassed without a fight.
> Oh wait that never happened. You would have bribed your way out of
> anything it Goldie Goldman. You love Money more than your own Mother.
> Wolfgang Streicher.

what a sick fuck. and a top poster at that...


From: "Kurt Knoll" <kknoll@monarch.net>
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.jewish,alt.atheism,talk.atheism,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Holocaust Revisionism and Creationism Have Nothing In Common
Date: Fri, 5 Jul 2002 19:24:50 -0700

Look like you are jealous ?.

Kurt Knoll.


From: wolfgang1488@yahoo.com (Wolfgang Streicher)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.jewish,alt.atheism,talk.atheism,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Holocaust Revisionism and Creationism Have Nothing In Common
Date: 6 Jul 2002 16:45:42 -0700

Jews could never know a true love of Fatherland. They are only jealous of the achievement of others. All they care about is destroying Other's dreams. And then when we fight back they pretend to be victims. Next time there will be no Mercy for the chosen ones. Wolfgang Streicher.


From: Orac <Orac@wabcmail.com>
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.jewish,alt.atheism,talk.atheism,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Holocaust Revisionism and Creationism Have Nothing In Common
Date: Sat, 06 Jul 2002 22:00:11 -0400

In article <16c94fdb.0207061545.729beb68@posting.google.com>,
wolfgang1488@yahoo.com (Wolfgang Streicher) wrote:

> Jews could never know a true love of Fatherland. They are only jealous
> of the achievement of others. All they care about is destroying
> Other's dreams. And then when we fight back they pretend to be
> victims. Next time there will be no Mercy for the chosen ones.
> Wolfgang Streicher.

Ah, yes, the old "the Holocaust never happened and it should happen again!" crap often peddled by Holocaust deniers.

--
Orac |"A statement of fact cannot be insolent."
|
|"If you cannot listen to the answers, why do you
| inconvenience me with questions?"


From: buyensl@interlacken.com (Lorrill Buyens)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.jewish,alt.atheism,talk.atheism,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Holocaust Revisionism and Creationism Have Nothing In Common
Date: Mon, 08 Jul 2002 02:12:36 GMT

Right before wolfgang1488@yahoo.com (Wolfgang Streicher) was eaten by cannibals on 6 Jul 2002 16:45:42 -0700, they issued this poignant cry for help:

>Jews could never know a true love of Fatherland. They are only jealous
>of the achievement of others.

Now why would they have any reason to be jealous when most of 'em have some pretty decent achievements o' their own?

>All they care about is destroying Other's dreams.

Like yer dreams of a million people shouting "Heil, Wolfgang!"?

>And then when we fight back they pretend to be victims.

"He ran into my fist, officer, honest!"

>Next time there will be no Mercy for the chosen ones.

If there ever *is* a "next time," which I seriously doubt.

--
"There can be only one Silly Vampire Programme, and 'It
is I, Count Homogenized' has had that title sewn up since
about 1978..."
- Dave Joll, in rec.arts.drwho


From: "Wolf333" <wolfe333@nospam.com>
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.jewish,alt.atheism,talk.atheism,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Holocaust Revisionism and Creationism Have Nothing In Common
Date: Sat, 6 Jul 2002 03:21:59 -0500

"R.J.Goldman" <rgoldman@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:fYeV8.39708$wj4.3143517@e3500-atl2.usenetserver.com...
> OL'e Wolfy has got issues,
> he needs to restock the Tin foil very soon!

Careful... there's more than one Wolfy here ::)
____
+++ Divide By Cucumber Error. Please Reinstall Universe And Reboot+++
Michael Wolfe
AA# 1912
EAC Assistant to the Deputy Secretary of Alternative Food Sources
____


From: wolfgang1488@yahoo.com (Wolfgang Streicher)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.jewish,alt.atheism,talk.atheism,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Holocaust Revisionism and Creationism Have Nothing In Common
Date: 5 Jul 2002 13:15:00 -0700

Fundy? I have no use for religion. You on the other hand are a Holo hoax fundie. Wolfgang Streicher.


From: "Arjan" <arjan@morgaine.demon.nl>
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.jewish,alt.atheism,talk.atheism,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Holocaust Revisionism and Creationism Have Nothing In Common
Date: Fri, 5 Jul 2002 16:54:29 +0200

"Wolfgang Streicher" <wolfgang1488@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:16c94fdb.0207042207.6b2de59a@posting.google.com...

> The media like it or not is mostly Jewish controlled. So it will try
> to portray Aryan nationalists and revisionists as Christian
> creationist crackpots. In fact nothing could be further from the
> truth. I am no Christian and wasn't raised up as one either. I want a
> free Aryan nation and I can't stand the Jews. But for most of us
> nationalists it's all about race, not religion. I don't hate
> Christians but I don't see how anyone could swallow the Creationist
> fairy tale, anymore than the Holohoax fairy tale.

The main idea is that someone who denies the holocaust is as stupid as a creationist and capable of denying any truth whatever.

Like evolution the proves are everywhere. Especially in Europe were I live. Grow up.

> Wolfgang Streicher.

Arjan


From: wolfgang1488@yahoo.com (Wolfgang Streicher)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.jewish,alt.atheism,talk.atheism,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Holocaust Revisionism and Creationism Have Nothing In Common
Date: 5 Jul 2002 14:27:36 -0700

Where is the scientific proof for the holohoax. There is none. Even some holohoaxers like Hilberg have slipped up and admitted this. Stupidity is swallowing whole every lie of the establishment. I have a sceptical mind that is why I refute the holo hoax.

Wolfgang Streicher.


From: "Lawson English" <english7@mindspring.com>
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.jewish,alt.atheism,talk.atheism,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Holocaust Revisionism and Creationism Have Nothing In Common
Date: Fri, 5 Jul 2002 14:49:49 -0700

Um, not to be too nit-picky, but there's no such thing as "scientific proof" for an historical event.

Actually, come to think of it, "scientific 'proof'" is an oxymoron since "proof" is not possible in Science, period.

"Wolfgang Streicher" <wolfgang1488@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:16c94fdb.0207051327.200146b9@posting.google.com...
> Where is the scientific proof for the holohoax. There is none. Even
> some holohoaxers like Hilberg have slipped up and admitted this.
> Stupidity is swallowing whole every lie of the establishment. I have a
> sceptical mind that is why I refute the holo hoax.
> Wolfgang Streicher.


From: "Kurt Knoll" <kknoll@monarch.net>
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.jewish,alt.atheism,talk.atheism,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Holocaust Revisionism and Creationism Have Nothing In Common
Date: Fri, 5 Jul 2002 16:58:29 -0700

If someone exaggerates like the jews do there would certainly be a need for scientific proof.

Kurt Knoll.


From: "david_michael" <david_michael@onetel.net.uk>
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.jewish,alt.atheism,talk.atheism,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Holocaust Revisionism and Creationism Have Nothing In Common
Date: Sat, 6 Jul 2002 02:45:53 +0100

"Lawson English" <english7@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:ag53tf$hbi$1@slb5.atl.mindspring.net...

> Um, not to be too nit-picky, but there's no such thing as "scientific proof"
> for an historical event.

Precisely. History proceeds by manufacturing interpretations. The 'Holocaust' theory is one interpretation. The 'Holocaust is a helluva lot more complicated that some of the anti-revisionists think' theory is another.

David


From: wolfgang1488@yahoo.com (Wolfgang Streicher)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.jewish,alt.atheism,talk.atheism,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Holocaust Revisionism and Creationism Have Nothing In Common
Date: 6 Jul 2002 10:22:04 -0700

You two are correct, I erred in the way I stated things. Mea culpa!

Wolfgang Streicher.


From: Orac <Orac@wabcmail.com>
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.jewish,alt.atheism,talk.atheism,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Holocaust Revisionism and Creationism Have Nothing In Common
Date: Sat, 06 Jul 2002 21:52:54 -0400

In article <3d2649a8@212.67.96.135>,
"david_michael" <david_michael@onetel.net.uk> wrote:

> "Lawson English" <english7@mindspring.com> wrote in message
> news:ag53tf$hbi$1@slb5.atl.mindspring.net...
> > Um, not to be too nit-picky, but there's no such thing as "scientific
> proof"

> > for an historical event.

> Precisely. History proceeds by manufacturing interpretations. The
> 'Holocaust' theory is one interpretation. The 'Holocaust is a helluva lot
> more complicated that some of the anti-revisionists think' theory is
> another.

Actually, those who understand the historicity of the Holocaust understand just how complicated Holocaust history is. Indeed, that is why we study the complete evolution of how the killing began in the late 1930's with the T4 program. When the invasion of the Soviet Union placed millions of Jews under Nazi control, too many Jews to deport, the prior T4 program had paved the way for the later mass shootings by the Einsatzgruppen, which led to a search for a more sanitized way to kill Jews, which ultimately led to killing centers like Auschwitz. We also study how, along the way, things didn't proceed in such a neat progression all the time, how there were starts and stops along the way, how there were arguments over methods and tactics among the Nazi commanders. There are also the debates of functionalist versus intentionalist schools of Holocaust history.

None of this changes the basic fact that the Nazis intentionally and systematically tried to kill all the Jews in territories under their control.

Actually, it is those who deny the historicity of the Holocaust who posit simple, but false, explanations to try to deny or minimize the killings committed by the Nazis during the Holocaust, explanations such as a grand conspiracy by Jews to exaggerate the death toll in order to gain more power (as some of the cruder Holocaust deniers claim) or a conspiracy by Allied countries to manufacture forgeries of Nazi documents to use to convict Nazis at Nuremberg (as you have implied on many occasions). Such simple explanations that deny, excuse, or minimize Nazi culpability for the murders of approximately six million Jews and five million non-Jews do not stand up to a detailed examination of the Holocaust in all of its complexity.

--
Orac |"A statement of fact cannot be insolent."
|
|"If you cannot listen to the answers, why do you
| inconvenience me with questions?"


From: "Kurt Knoll" <kknoll@monarch.net>
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.jewish,alt.atheism,talk.atheism,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Holocaust Revisionism and Creationism Have Nothing In Common
Date: Sun, 7 Jul 2002 06:48:56 -0700

There were never 6 million Jews under Nazi Control are you fishing here to justify your exaggerated numbers.

Kurt Knoll.


Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.jewish,alt.atheism,talk.atheism,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Holocaust Revisionism and Creationism Have Nothing In Common
From: William Daffer <whdaffer@wabcmail.com>
Date: Sun, 07 Jul 2002 14:52:43 GMT

"Kurt Knoll" <kknoll@monarch.net> writes:

> There were never 6 million Jews under Nazi Control are you fishing here
> to justify your exaggerated numbers.

Tell it to Eichmann. In the Wannsee protocol he estimated the number at 11 million. Since he was an intelligent man, if a complete sociopath, while you are a complete moron, I'm sure most everyone understands that he would know.

[snip]

whd
--
The DEM unit commenting on the harassment campaign against Sara
Salzman which has been going on for *months*.

Looks to me like a harmless bit of fun at the expense of a rather unpleasant person.


From: knight@indystart.com (Black Knight)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.jewish,alt.atheism,talk.atheism,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Holocaust Revisionism and Creationism Have Nothing In Common
Date: 7 Jul 2002 11:30:37 -0700

"Kurt Knoll" <kknoll@monarch.net> wrote in message news:<1026050619.681987@critter.monarch.net>...
> There were never 6 million Jews under Nazi Control are you fishing here
> to justify your exaggerated numbers.

> Kurt Knoll.

Then why did the SS records put the number exterminated at 6 million? Eichmann told this to his boss, Himmler, in a letter introduced at his trial. This is just more of your lies, scumbag.

Bruno


From: Orac <Orac@wabcmail.com>
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.jewish,alt.atheism,talk.atheism,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Holocaust Revisionism and Creationism Have Nothing In Common
Date: Sun, 07 Jul 2002 15:09:02 -0400

In article <594c8e48.0207071030.1044cb90@posting.google.com>,
knight@indystart.com (Black Knight) wrote:

> "Kurt Knoll" <kknoll@monarch.net> wrote in message
> news:<1026050619.681987@critter.monarch.net>...
> > There were never 6 million Jews under Nazi Control are you fishing here
> > to justify your exaggerated numbers.

> > Kurt Knoll.

> Then why did the SS records put the number exterminated at 6 million?
> Eichmann told this to his boss, Himmler, in a letter introduced at his
> trial. This is just more of your lies, scumbag.

And why, when the diliberations about the Final Solution were going on, did the Nazis themselves estimate that there were approximately 11 million Jews in the territories under their control:

--
Orac |"A statement of fact cannot be insolent."
|
|"If you cannot listen to the answers, why do you
| inconvenience me with questions?"


From: "Kurt Knoll" <kknoll@monarch.net>
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.jewish,alt.atheism,talk.atheism,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Holocaust Revisionism and Creationism Have Nothing In Common
Date: Sun, 7 Jul 2002 13:34:10 -0700

Did Eichman know about this.

kk


Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.jewish,alt.atheism,talk.atheism,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Holocaust Revisionism and Creationism Have Nothing In Common
From: William Daffer <whdaffer@wabcmail.com>
Date: Mon, 08 Jul 2002 14:37:08 GMT

"Kurt Knoll" <kknoll@monarch.net> yaps:

*yipyipyip*

[snip]

whd
--
National Runt, demonstrating what he thinks is an 'on-topic' response

Hello! Can you hear me? I cannot discern the relevancy of your posts! Hello! Are you asking me if I have any Pink Floyd albums you'd like to borrow? Hello!


From: "George Black" <gblack@ihug.co.nz>
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.jewish,alt.atheism,talk.atheism,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Holocaust Revisionism and Creationism Have Nothing In Common
Date: Mon, 8 Jul 2002 08:36:52 +1200

"Kurt Knoll" <kknoll@monarch.net> wrote in message
news:1026050619.681987@critter.monarch.net...

> There were never 6 million Jews under Nazi Control are you fishing here
> to justify your exaggerated numbers.

When we add the Gypsies, the intellectually handicapped and the homosexuals it comes to a whole lot more.

The foul deeds of the Nazi were well recorded by the German nation.


From: Charles & Mambo <Duckman@get.lost>
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.jewish,alt.atheism,talk.atheism,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Holocaust Revisionism and Creationism Have Nothing In Common
Date: Fri, 05 Jul 2002 21:53:00 GMT

Wolfgang Streicher wrote:

> Where is the scientific proof for the holohoax. There is none. Even
> some holohoaxers like Hilberg have slipped up and admitted this.
> Stupidity is swallowing whole every lie of the establishment. I have a
> sceptical mind that is why I refute the holo hoax.

You are an idiot. Being skeptical does not mean "buying into any world conspiracy that jives with my narrow-minded view of the world". As for your tripe, I doubt you'll convert anyone on these newsgroups to your already discredited ideology. You'd have better luck in prisons. Piss off.


From: John Morris <John.Morris@UAlberta.CA>
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.jewish,alt.atheism,talk.atheism,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Holocaust Revisionism and Creationism Have Nothing In Common
Date: Fri, 05 Jul 2002 22:23:18 GMT

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

In <16c94fdb.0207051327.200146b9@posting.google.com> in alt.revisionism, on 5 Jul 2002 14:27:36 -0700, wolfgang1488@yahoo.com (Wolfgang Streicher) wrote:

> Where is the scientific proof for the holohoax. There is none.

Where is the scientific proof for World War II? Can you point me to one scientific study that proves World War II occurred?

> Even
> some holohoaxers like Hilberg have slipped up and admitted this.
> Stupidity is swallowing whole every lie of the establishment. I
> have a sceptical mind that is why I refute the holo hoax.

And is that why you you are so gullible to believe "Grubach's" lie about Hilberg's admission?

[snip]

- --
John Morris <John.Morris@UAlberta.CA>
at University of Alberta <Multi pertransibunt & augebitur scientia>


From: Walking on Glass <walking_on_glass@hotmailNOSPAM.com>
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.jewish,alt.atheism,talk.atheism,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Holocaust Revisionism and Creationism Have Nothing In Common
Date: 5 Jul 2002 23:59:52 GMT

Wolfgang Streicher wrote in
news:16c94fdb.0207051327.200146b9@posting.google.com:

> Where is the scientific proof for the holohoax. There is none.

Where is the scientific proof for last thursday? There is none.

--
Walking on Glass (remove NOSPAM to email me)
Zymurgist #12

"If you want to save your child from polio, you can pray or you can inoculate...Try science" Carl Sagan - "The Demon-Haunted World"


From: shmulmayer@hotmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Common_=A2?=)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.jewish,alt.atheism,talk.atheism,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Holocaust Revisionism and Creationism Have Nothing In Common
Date: 6 Jul 2002 00:53:20 -0700

wolfgang1488@yahoo.com (Wolfgang Streicher) wrote in message news:<16c94fdb.0207051327.200146b9@posting.google.com>...

> Where is the scientific proof for the holohoax. There is none. Even
> some holohoaxers like Hilberg have slipped up and admitted this.
> Stupidity is swallowing whole every lie of the establishment. I have a
> sceptical mind that is why I refute the holo hoax.
> Wolfgang Streicher.

What a coincidence. I, too, am skeptical that you have a mind.


From: buyensl@interlacken.com (Lorrill Buyens)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.jewish,alt.atheism,talk.atheism,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Holocaust Revisionism and Creationism Have Nothing In Common
Date: Sun, 07 Jul 2002 01:12:49 GMT

Right before wolfgang1488@yahoo.com (Wolfgang Streicher) was eaten by cannibals on 5 Jul 2002 14:27:36 -0700, they issued this poignant cry for help:

>Where is the scientific proof for the holohoax. There is none. Even
>some holohoaxers like Hilberg have slipped up and admitted this.
>Stupidity is swallowing whole every lie of the establishment. I have a
>sceptical mind that is why I refute the holo hoax.

Where've the 5-10 million been for the last fifty-seven years, top-poster - the beach?

--
"There can be only one Silly Vampire Programme, and 'It
is I, Count Homogenized' has had that title sewn up since
about 1978..."
- Dave Joll, in rec.arts.drwho


From: "Kurt Knoll" <kknoll@monarch.net>
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.jewish,alt.atheism,talk.atheism,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Holocaust Revisionism and Creationism Have Nothing In Common
Date: Sat, 6 Jul 2002 20:11:04 -0700

Most of then did die after the war does still alive collect holohoax money.

Kurt Knoll.


From: "George Black" <gblack@ihug.co.nz>
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.jewish,alt.atheism,talk.atheism,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Holocaust Revisionism and Creationism Have Nothing In Common
Date: Sun, 7 Jul 2002 17:14:33 +1200

"Kurt Knoll" <kknoll@monarch.net> wrote in message news:1026012344.918034@critter.monarch.net...

> Most of then did die after the war does still alive collect holohoax
> money.

> Kurt Knoll.

Your knowledge of history and English phrasing are deficient


From: "Reekard" <barber@seville.com>
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.jewish,alt.atheism,talk.atheism,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Holocaust Revisionism and Creationism Have Nothing In Common
Date: Sun, 07 Jul 2002 05:37:01 GMT

"George Black" <gblack@ihug.co.nz> wrote in message news:ag8ijs$fn2$1@lust.ihug.co.nz...

> "Kurt Knoll" <kknoll@monarch.net> wrote in message
> news:1026012344.918034@critter.monarch.net...
> > Most of then did die after the war does still alive collect holohoax
> > money.

> > Kurt Knoll.
> Your knowledge of history and English phrasing are deficient

The understatement of the year. :-)


From: "Kurt Knoll" <kknoll@monarch.net>
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.jewish,alt.atheism,talk.atheism,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Holocaust Revisionism and Creationism Have Nothing In Common
Date: Sat, 6 Jul 2002 23:32:08 -0700

I know you got the message and this is what counts.

Kurt Knoll.


From: "Wolf333" <wolfe333@nospam.com>
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.jewish,alt.atheism,talk.atheism,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Holocaust Revisionism and Creationism Have Nothing In Common
Date: Sun, 7 Jul 2002 03:45:38 -0500

"Kurt Knoll" <kknoll@monarch.net> wrote in message news:1026024408.828274@critter.monarch.net...

> I know you got the message and this is what counts.

And the message is that you really are a moron? Loud and clear!


____
+++ Divide By Cucumber Error. Please Reinstall Universe And Reboot+++
Michael Wolfe
AA# 1912
EAC Assistant to the Deputy Secretary of Alternative Food Sources
____


From: "George Black" <gblack@ihug.co.nz>
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.jewish,alt.atheism,talk.atheism,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Holocaust Revisionism and Creationism Have Nothing In Common
Date: Sun, 7 Jul 2002 21:08:04 +1200

"Kurt Knoll" <kknoll@monarch.net> wrote in message news:1026024408.828274@critter.monarch.net...

> I know you got the message and this is what counts.

No son. What happened was no-one understands your tortured English let alone gain anything from your strange alternate history..


From: "Kurt Knoll" <kknoll@monarch.net>
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.jewish,alt.atheism,talk.atheism,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Holocaust Revisionism and Creationism Have Nothing In Common
Date: Sun, 7 Jul 2002 06:52:11 -0700

History is not in your comic books history is what people experienced on both sides and not just one who is making a holohoax business out of it.

Kurt Knoll.


Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.jewish,alt.atheism,talk.atheism,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Holocaust Revisionism and Creationism Have Nothing In Common
From: William Daffer <whdaffer@wabcmail.com>
Date: Sun, 07 Jul 2002 14:50:26 GMT

"Kurt Knoll" <kknoll@monarch.net> writes:

> History is not in your comic books history is what people experienced on > both sides and not just one who is making a holohoax business out of it.

Translation: yipyipyip, woofwoof, bark!

whd
--
Tom Moran, in <3b945797.442024163@news.pacificnet.net>

Daffer says:
> Do you understand the concept of an 'exothermic' reaction?

Yes, I understand the Holocaust community's understanding. The same as a candle burning, or a piece of wood. You know, Holocaust bodies burned like candles or wood.


From: "Michael Painter" <m.painter@worldnet.att.net>
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.jewish,alt.atheism,talk.atheism,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Holocaust Revisionism and Creationism Have Nothing In Common
Date: Sun, 07 Jul 2002 17:24:57 GMT

"Kurt Knoll" <kknoll@monarch.net> wrote in message news:1026050814.962220@critter.monarch.net...

> History is not in your comic books history is what people experienced on
> both sides and not just one who is making a holohoax business out of it.

> Kurt Knoll.

Why did the German government, *before* the end of the war build all those camps, produce all those records and manufacture those mountains of artificial legs and eyeglasses to make this hoax look real? Why do they continue to maintain this hoax with more honesty than America does when talking about the way we treated the native Americans?

Does our government kill off anybody who admits that the pictures and records are all false?

How much do the people that claimed they were there get paid?


From: "George Black" <gblack@ihug.co.nz>
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.jewish,alt.atheism,talk.atheism,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Holocaust Revisionism and Creationism Have Nothing In Common
Date: Mon, 8 Jul 2002 08:34:52 +1200

"Kurt Knoll" <kknoll@monarch.net> wrote in message news:1026050814.962220@critter.monarch.net...

> History is not in your comic books history is what people experienced on
> both sides and not just one who is making a holohoax business out of it.

History is what I've lived through.

And your feeble attempts to change that history doesn't work. Your last attempt (in France) to gain power was beaten by over 90%.


Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.jewish,alt.atheism,talk.atheism,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Holocaust Revisionism and Creationism Have Nothing In Common
From: William Daffer <whdaffer@wabcmail.com>
Date: Sun, 07 Jul 2002 03:03:54 GMT

wolfgang1488@yahoo.com (Wolfgang Streicher) writes:

> Where is the scientific proof for the holohoax.

Where's the scientific proof of WWII? Of the Battle of Gettysburg? Of the 100 Years War?

> There is none.

There's more proof of the Holocaust than there is of the events I mention.

> Even
> some holohoaxers like Hilberg have slipped up and admitted this.

Really? Why don't you produce Hilberg's statements.

> Stupidity is swallowing whole every lie of the establishment. I have a
> sceptical mind that is why I refute the holo hoax.

You couldn't refute anything. All you can do is *claim* that you can disprove it. You never actually get around to disproving anything.

[snip]

whd
--
'To me, there is no such thing as a "freedom fighter".'

Pat Blakely in
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=9r2jns%24mv9%241%40suaar1aa.prod.compuserve.com


From: John Morris <John.Morris@UAlberta.CA>
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.jewish,alt.atheism,talk.atheism,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Holocaust Revisionism and Creationism Have Nothing In Common
Date: Fri, 05 Jul 2002 15:31:02 GMT

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In <3D25AF14.F2077775@telocity.com> in alt.revisionism, on Fri, 05
Jul 2002 10:37:08 -0400, Colin Day <colinday@telocity.com> wrote:

> Wolfgang Streicher wrote:

> > The media like it or not is mostly Jewish controlled. So it will
> > try to portray Aryan nationalists and revisionists as Christian
> > creationist crackpots. In fact nothing could be further from the
> > truth. I am no Christian and wasn't raised up as one either. I
> > want a free Aryan nation and I can't stand the Jews. But for most
> > of us

> You're not related to Julius Streicher, are you?

I think he wants to *be* Julius Streicher. Given that Julius Streicher was actually retarded, I'd say he's more than half way there.

Maybe we could get him to talk about poisoning the Jewish bacillus or about how Jews with dirty fingernails want to despoil nice Aryan girls.

- --
John Morris <John.Morris@UAlberta.CA>
at University of Alberta <Multi pertransibunt & augebitur scientia>


From: "Kurt Knoll" <kknoll@monarch.net>
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.jewish,alt.atheism,talk.atheism,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Holocaust Revisionism and Creationism Have Nothing In Common
Date: Fri, 5 Jul 2002 09:41:25 -0700

Gee I did not know anyone that disagrees with the jews is retarded ?.

Kurt Knoll.


From: John Morris <John.Morris@UAlberta.CA>
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.jewish,alt.atheism,talk.atheism,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Holocaust Revisionism and Creationism Have Nothing In Common
Date: Fri, 05 Jul 2002 17:08:04 GMT

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In <1025888153.479576@critter.monarch.net> in alt.revisionism, on
Fri, 5 Jul 2002 09:41:25 -0700, "Kurt Knoll" <kknoll@monarch.net>
wrote:

> Gee I did not know anyone that disagrees with the jews is retarded
> ?.

Hee heeeee! Now Kurt's defending the toilet sniffer.

Did Werner once say that you and he attended Streicher's school? It would explain a lot. Especially your questionable taste in shirts.

- --
John Morris <John.Morris@UAlberta.CA>
at University of Alberta <Multi pertransibunt & augebitur scientia>


From: "Kurt Knoll" <kknoll@monarch.net>
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.jewish,alt.atheism,talk.atheism,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Holocaust Revisionism and Creationism Have Nothing In Common
Date: Fri, 5 Jul 2002 10:29:14 -0700

Streicher never did have a school. Wee were in a school that was named Julius Streicher Schule somewhere in 1939 till 1945 we were only there from 1939 till 1942 after 1945 it was renaming Scharrer Schule. Too bad we did not have a Menachem Begins school ? this would make me a Jew.

Kurt Knoll.


From: wolfgang1488@yahoo.com (Wolfgang Streicher)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.jewish,alt.atheism,talk.atheism,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Holocaust Revisionism and Creationism Have Nothing In Common
Date: 5 Jul 2002 14:38:31 -0700

The only toilet sniffer here is you just like your idol Allan Ginsberg. You Jews are vermin and vultures that is your nature. Morris you embody American decadence and sickness of mind. Don't give me this about being Canadian we all know Canada is ordered around by Washington which in turn answers to Jew York and Tel Aviv. Wolfgang Streicher.


From: John Morris <John.Morris@UAlberta.CA>
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.jewish,alt.atheism,talk.atheism,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Holocaust Revisionism and Creationism Have Nothing In Common
Date: Fri, 05 Jul 2002 22:11:17 GMT

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In <16c94fdb.0207051338.7e847f9f@posting.google.com> in alt.revisionism, on 5 Jul 2002 14:38:31 -0700, wolfgang1488@yahoo.com (Another Ranting Moron) wrote:

> The only toilet sniffer here is you just like your idol Allan
> Ginsberg. You Jews are vermin and vultures that is your nature.

It's a start. Now do the Jews with dirty fingernails ravishing Aryan maidens.

> Morris
> you embody American decadence and sickness of mind.

Yeah, I know. It's just terrible. I work for a living. I pay my own way. I respect the law. I vote in elections. I pay my taxes. And I don't steal.

> Don't give me this
> about being Canadian we all know Canada is ordered around by
> Washington which in turn answers to Jew York and Tel Aviv.
> Wolfgang Streicher.

Did you know that you come across as a complete idiot?

- --
John Morris <John.Morris@UAlberta.CA>
at University of Alberta <Multi pertransibunt & augebitur scientia>


From: wolfgang1488@yahoo.com (Wolfgang Streicher)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.jewish,alt.atheism,talk.atheism,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Holocaust Revisionism and Creationism Have Nothing In Common
Date: 5 Jul 2002 14:32:12 -0700

Or maybe it's just my name.

Morris you are a liar, Julius Streicher was a genius. Anyone who has really read what he wrote knows this. Then again you do not even know German you two faced zionist.

Wolfgang Streicher.


From: John Morris <John.Morris@UAlberta.CA>
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.jewish,alt.atheism,talk.atheism,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Holocaust Revisionism and Creationism Have Nothing In Common
Date: Fri, 05 Jul 2002 23:13:55 GMT

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In <16c94fdb.0207051332.6f11e3ec@posting.google.com> in alt.revisionism, on 5 Jul 2002 14:32:12 -0700, wolfgang1488@yahoo.com (Wolfgang Streicher) wrote:

> Or maybe it's just my name.

I doubt it.

> Morris you are a liar, Julius Streicher was a genius.

That's not how he tested.

> Anyone who has
> really read what he wrote

What he wrote reads like pornography.

> knows this. Then again you do not even know > German

Was die zeit der abfassung angeht, so ist dieselbe noch ins 14. jahrhundert zu setzen un zwar aus dem einfachen grunde, weil das ms. Ashm. 50, II [sic], wie aus anderen darin enthaltenen dichtungen hervorgeht, ohne zweifel im 14. jahrhundert noch geschrieben ist und es eine der fabeln enhält. Dieselbe steht in Harl. 2251 an siebenter stelle und ist so eng mit den vorhergehenden fabeln verbunden, dass man nicht etwa annehemen kann, Lydgate habe in seiner jugend nur die eine fabel und erst später den prolog und die sechs anderen übertragen.

[Concerning the date of composition, it can be set in the fourteenth century for the rather simple reason that MS Ashmole [59] contains one of the fables and also other poetical works which were undoubtedly written in the fourteenth century. The same fable is the seventh in Harley 2251 and is linked so closely with the preceding fables that one cannot presume Lydgate translated one fable in his youth and only later translated the prologue and the six others].

- From Paul Sauerstein's inaugural dissertation, "Über Lydgate's
Aesopübersetzung," Leipzig 1885.

Sauerstein's argument depends upon several dubious assumptions: that a scribal headnote is accurate in saying that Lydgate wrote his fables at Oxford; that Lydgate was attending Oxford rather than, say, visiting his friend Thomas Chaucer at Ewelme near Oxford; that Lydgate (c. 1370-1449) would necessarily have attended Oxford in his youth rather than in middle age.

The mistake in the manuscript number was, I think, a typographical error and not any clumsiness on Sauerstein's part.

> you two faced zionist.

But I am not a Zionist. Nor am I a Jew as you ranted elsewhere.

- --
John Morris <John.Morris@UAlberta.CA>
at University of Alberta <Multi pertransibunt & augebitur scientia>


From: knight@indystart.com (Black Knight)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.jewish,alt.atheism,talk.atheism,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Holocaust Revisionism and Creationism Have Nothing In Common
Date: 5 Jul 2002 09:42:50 -0700

wolfgang1488@yahoo.com (Wolfgang Streicher) wrote in message news:<16c94fdb.0207042207.6b2de59a@posting.google.com>...

> The media like it or not is mostly Jewish controlled. So it will try
> to portray Aryan nationalists and revisionists as Christian
> creationist crackpots. In fact nothing could be further from the
> truth. I am no Christian and wasn't raised up as one either. I want a
> free Aryan nation and I can't stand the Jews.

Great. We can't stand you, either. Why don't you go hide your dumb butt in a cave in the Pacific Northwest with your friend Covington. Then, neither of us would have to be disgusted by the other.Be careful up there,dumbass-I heard Bigfoot likes to eat bigots.

The media does not portray Christian Creationists as crackpots. I have seen no evidence of this. The US Attorney General, John Ashcroft, is a Christian Fundamentalist. I don't know if he is a Creationist or not.It does not matter to me- I support him.As a matter of fact, I have several friends who are Christian Fundamentalists and Creationists.They are not crackpots. All 3 are fine intelligent people. Religious views and science are two different things which serve two different purposes. They can, in my view, exist side by side.

Where do you dumb Nazi-Snotzies get your idiotic ideas? The Jews pay their taxes and do their military service just like all Americans- they have the same rights here that you do, fiddlebrain. If you don't like someone, just avoid them like the rest of us do. If you show up on my doorstep and try anything nasty, you're gonna get a shotgun stuck in your face. I think that about covers the subject.

Bruno


From: wolfgang1488@yahoo.com (Wolfgang Streicher)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.jewish,alt.atheism,talk.atheism,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Holocaust Revisionism and Creationism Have Nothing In Common
Date: 5 Jul 2002 14:42:16 -0700

Why would I want a homeland there. We are reclaiming Europe not hiding in some redneck hinterland in Amerika.

Wolfgang Streicher.


From: Orac <Orac@wabcmail.com>
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.õlture.jewish,alt.atheism,talk.atheism,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Holocaust Revisionism and Creationism Have Nothing In Common
Date: Fri, 05 Jul 2002 18:18:46 -0400

In article <16c94fdb.0207051342.5b962eac@posting.google.com>, wolfgang1488@yahoo.com (Wolfgang Streicher) wrote:

> Why would I want a homeland there. We are reclaiming Europe not hiding
> in some redneck hinterland in Amerika.

As an American, imagine my relief! LOL!

--
Orac |"A statement of fact cannot be insolent."
|
|"If you cannot listen to the answers, why do you
| inconvenience me with questions?"


From: wolfgang1488@yahoo.com (Wolfgang Streicher)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.jewish,alt.atheism,talk.atheism,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Holocaust Revisionism and Creationism Have Nothing In Common
Date: 5 Jul 2002 19:32:27 -0700

There are National Socialists in the USA and Canada. But they are not even close to as numerous or well funded as their European counterparts. Best wishes to all National Socialists and White nationalists, wherever they may be.

Wolfgang Streicher.


From: "George Black" <gblack@ihug.co.nz>
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.jewish,alt.atheism,talk.atheism,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Holocaust Revisionism and Creationism Have Nothing In Common
Date: Sat, 6 Jul 2002 17:18:01 +1200

"Wolfgang Streicher" <wolfgang1488@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:16c94fdb.0207051832.34806d43@posting.google.com...

> There are National Socialists in the USA and Canada.

Well the US and Canada need something to laugh at


From: Orac <Orac@wabcmail.com>
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.jewish,alt.atheism,talk.atheism,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Holocaust Revisionism and Creationism Have Nothing In Common
Date: Sat, 06 Jul 2002 16:45:51 -0400

In article <ag5ueb$mtu$1@lust.ihug.co.nz>,
"George Black" <gblack@ihug.co.nz> wrote:

> "Wolfgang Streicher" <wolfgang1488@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:16c94fdb.0207051832.34806d43@posting.google.com...
> > There are National Socialists in the USA and Canada.

> Well the US and Canada need something to laugh at

And the "brave Aryan warriors" trying to resurrect Naziism are definitely something to be laughed at!

--
Orac |"A statement of fact cannot be insolent."
|
|"If you cannot listen to the answers, why do you
| inconvenience me with questions?"


From: "George Black" <gblack@ihug.co.nz>
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.jewish,alt.atheism,talk.atheism,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Holocaust Revisionism and Creationism Have Nothing In Common
Date: Sun, 7 Jul 2002 13:16:33 +1200

"Orac" <Orac@wabcmail.com> wrote in message
news:Orac-C89DFE.16455106072002@news.srv.hcvlny.cv.net...
> In article <ag5ueb$mtu$1@lust.ihug.co.nz>,
> "George Black" <gblack@ihug.co.nz> wrote:

> > "Wolfgang Streicher" <wolfgang1488@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> > news:16c94fdb.0207051832.34806d43@posting.google.com...
> > > There are National Socialists in the USA and Canada.

> > Well the US and Canada need something to laugh at

> And the "brave Aryan warriors" trying to resurrect Naziism are
> definitely something to be laughed at!

Especially when they come up against anything like their numbers in a confrontation.

Sheesh, can they run...

Just a bunch of cowards


From: "George Black" <gblack@ihug.co.nz>
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.jewish,alt.atheism,talk.atheism,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Holocaust Revisionism and Creationism Have Nothing In Common
Date: Sat, 6 Jul 2002 11:27:57 +1200

"Wolfgang Streicher" <wolfgang1488@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:16c94fdb.0207051342.5b962eac@posting.google.com...

> Why would I want a homeland there. We are reclaiming Europe not hiding
> in some redneck hinterland in Amerika.
> Wolfgang Streicher.

And just like the last time you beat up on the weak and dispossessed. Typical cowardly behaviour...

You haven't learnt yet have you!


From: knight@indystart.com (Black Knight)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.jewish,alt.atheism,talk.atheism,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Holocaust Revisionism and Creationism Have Nothing In Common
Date: 5 Jul 2002 19:00:53 -0700

wolfgang1488@yahoo.com (Wolfgang Streicher) wrote in message news:<16c94fdb.0207051342.5b962eac@posting.google.com>...

> Why would I want a homeland there. We are reclaiming Europe not hiding
> in some redneck hinterland in Amerika.
> Wolfgang Streicher.

How do you propose to "reclaim" Europe with your fucking Aryan bullshit? Do you think the French,Spaniards, Poles, Russians,Czechs, Hungarians,Serbs,Belgians and Greeks will just smile while you take over?

I can assure you with resonable confidence that the Serbs ,Russians, and Greeks will give you one hell of a fight. They have done it before. I don't know about the others. If you morons are gonna try invading Russia again, let me know-I want to watch this-HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

Bruno


From: John Morris <John.Morris@UAlberta.CA>
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.jewish,alt.atheism,talk.atheism,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Holocaust Revisionism and Creationism Have Nothing In Common
Date: Fri, 05 Jul 2002 16:48:45 GMT

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In <16c94fdb.0207042207.6b2de59a@posting.google.com> in alt.revisionism, on 4 Jul 2002 23:07:01 -0700, wolfgang1488@yahoo.com (Wolfgang Streicher) wrote:

> The media like it or not is mostly Jewish controlled. So it will
> try to portray Aryan nationalists and revisionists as Christian
> creationist crackpots.

Don't be silly. "Revisionists" are their own special breed of crackpots.

> In fact nothing could be further from the
> truth. I am no Christian and wasn't raised up as one either. I want
> a free Aryan nation and I can't stand the Jews. But for most of us
> nationalists it's all about race, not religion.

Maybe we can get the crackpot to expand on the "Jewish race."

> I don't hate
> Christians but I don't see how anyone could swallow the Creationist
> fairy tale, anymore than the Holohoax fairy tale.
> Wolfgang Streicher.

> Holocaust Revisionism and Creationism:
> Shermer's Faulty Analogy

> By Paul Grubach

> In his regular column of the February 2002 issue of Scientific
> American, Dr. Michael Shermer, one of Holocaust revisionism's most
> dedicated opponents, claimed that Holocaust revisionism (or, as he
> labels it, "Holocaust denial") is on par with and in the same
> league with Creationism (or, as he labels it, "evolution denial").
> As we shall soon see, this is an excellent example the fallacy of
> "faulty analogy."

> Regarding evolutionary theory, Shermer stated: "The preponderance
> of evidence from numerous converging lines of inquiry (geology,
> paleontology, zoology, botany, comparative anatomy, genetics,
> biogeography, etc.) all independently point to the same
> conclusion--evolution happened. The nineteenth century philosopher
> of science, William Whewell, called this process of independent
> lines of inquiry converging together to a conclusion a
> 'consillience of inductions.' I call it a 'convergence of
> evidence.' Whatever you call it, it is how historical events are
> proven."

> Shermer then added that "evolution denial [is] the doppelganger of
> Holocaust denial, using the same techniques of rhetoric and
> debate--see my book--Why People Believe Weird Things--for a
> comparison..."

> Here, Shermer is implying that the traditional view of the
> Holocaust is based upon the same type of solid scientific evidence
> that evolutionary theory is based on.

Actually, that's not what Shermer's implying. He is actually *saying* that Holocaust denial and Creationism use the same techniques of rhetoric and debate. He says nothing about the *kinds* of evidence used to prove historical events as opposed top the kinds of evidence used to prove scientific theories.

I guess we need to get back in the sand box with poor Mr. Grubach and explain that historians and scientists use different kinds of evidence.

> Just as the different forms of
> scientific evidence converge on the conclusion that evolution
> happened, so too, the different forms of evidence converge on the
> conclusion that "the Holocaust happened."

But no. Grubach apparently does know the difference. But, "as we shall see," he forgets the difference.

> This is an excellent example of the fallacy of "faulty analogy,"
> because the supposedly analogous things have more differences than
> similarities.

> Evolutionary theory is indeed based upon scientific evidence from
> botany, zoology, embryology, etc. (Even Creationists own up to much
> of the scientific evidence, but they will give a different
> interpretation to that evidence.) The traditional view of the
> Holocaust has
> absolutely no scientific evidence to bolster it.

Oh golly. I guess, then, the historicity of the Holocaust must rely on historical evidence.

> At the first
> "Holocaust" trial of German-born publisher Ernst Zundel, the
> premier Holocaust historian Raul Hilberg admitted that there is no
> scientific evidence to support the existence of the "Hitler gas
> chambers."1

Actually, that is not what Hilberg said. He said that he personally knew of no scientific evidence of gas chambers. That is hardly surprising given that Hilberg is an historian and not a forensic scientist. What Hilberg apparently didn't know was of the first study by the Crackow Forensic Institute of the cyanide deposits on the walls of the gas chambers. Presumably, Hilberg also did not know of the core samples study by the Polish mining engineering firm Hydrokop which identified the locations of the various mass graves at Auschwitz.

Hilberg's "admission" is not the same thing as saying, "there is no scientific evidence."

> At the famous Irving-Lipstadt libel trial in London in
> winter-spring 2000, it was shown once again that there is no
> scientific evidence to prove the existence of the "Auschwitz gas
> chambers."2

It is not a not a good tactic to cite Irving's libel prosecution of Penguin Books and Deborah Lipstadt since Irving lost the case and was held in the judgment to be a falsifier of history among other things.

Just flipping over to the article cited in the footnote, we find Grubach saying,

There is no question that the judgment in this case will be used by many as “proof” that the traditional view of the Holocaust is correct, and Holocaust revisionism is a falsification of history. But how valid is this interpretation of the trial’s result?

Maybe it's just me, but I thought the judge was pretty clear on this point when he said,

13.163 . . . I find myself unable to accept Irving's contention that his falsification of the historical record is the product of innocent error or misinterpretation or incompetence on his part. When account is taken of all the considerations set out [in the preceding] paragraphs . . , it appears to me that the correct and inevitable inference must be that for the most part the falsification of the historical record was deliberate and that Irving was motivated by a desire to present events in a manner consistent with his own ideological beliefs even if that involved distortion and manipulation of historical evidence.

Apparently, there are no bounds the "Revisionists'" delusions.

> In fact,
> Holocaust revisionist scholars have shown that the the traditional
> view of the Holocaust is based on extremely dubious "eyewitness
> testimony," forced confessions, confessions taken under duress, and
> documents with equivocal meanings.

In other words, Holocaust deniers do just as Creationists do with the available evidence: they reject it.

> Evolutionary theory is not based
> upon questionable "eyewitness testimony," forced confessions,
> confessions taken under duress, and the dubious interpretation of
> equivocal Nazi documents.

Wow! Who's guilty of the fallacy of the false analogy here?

Nevertheless, one notes that Creationists would argue for a questionable fossil record and dubious assumptions of equivocal evidence from molecular biology.

> Nor can Shermer use a "convergence of evidence" to prove the
> traditional view of the Holocaust, because it has been shown that
> one can come to false conclusions using the traditional evidence to
> "prove" the Holocaust."3

And if you flip over to the article referenced in the footnote, Grubach retails the same set of wartime rumours about the "steam chambers" of Treblinka and how the historians' "story changed" to gas chambers using engine exhaust. Leaving aside the question of whether reports from Nazi-occupied Poland could ever be wholly reliable, Grubach neglects to mention that observations of Treblinka in operation would necessarily have taken place from some distance away and apparently does not know how much engine exhaust resembles steam in cold weather. Living as I do in a place as cold in winter as Eastern Poland, I think I have some expertise in this matter that might be lacking for a pseudonymous Californian.

> For a thorough discussion of these issues, the reader is referred
> to my two essays that expose the fallacies, errors, omissions and
> falsehoods in the work of Michael Shermer.4

> NOTES

> 1. "Scientific evidence of Holocaust missing," The Sault Star,
> January 18, 1985, p.A-11. The article is reprinted in Michael A.
> Hoffman II, The Great Holocaust Trial, 3rd ed., (Wiswell Ruffin
> House, 1995),
> p.88.

> 2. For a discussion of this matter with appropriate documentation,
> see Paul Grubach, "Convergence of Evidence: Reflections on the
> Irving-Lipstadt Affair," online:
> http://www.codoh.org/revisionist/tr09irving.html

> 3. Ibid.

> 4. See Paul Grubach, "A Revisionist Response to Shermerian
> Exterminationism, Part I: Why Does Michael Shermer Weird Beliefs
> About the Holocaust?," online: http://vho.org/GB/c/PG/111200.html.
> Paul
> Grubach, "In Defense of Holocaust Revisionism: A Response to
> Shermer and Grobman's Denying History," online:
> http://www.codoh.org/revisionist/review/tr09denyhist.html.

> http://www.codoh.org/revisionist/tr12creation.html

Unfortunately, we don't really find answer here to Shermer's comparison of the rhetorical techniques of Holocaust denial and Creationism. Rather, we find an example.

- --
John Morris <John.Morris@UAlberta.CA>
at University of Alberta <Multi pertransibunt & augebitur scientia>


From: Orac <Orac@wabcmail.com>
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.jewish,alt.atheism,talk.atheism,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Holocaust Revisionism and Creationism Have Nothing In Common
Date: Fri, 05 Jul 2002 18:14:47 -0400

In article <16c94fdb.0207042207.6b2de59a@posting.google.com>, wolfgang1488@yahoo.com (Wolfgang Streicher) wrote:

> The media like it or not is mostly Jewish controlled. So it will try
> to portray Aryan nationalists and revisionists as Christian
> creationist crackpots. In fact nothing could be further from the
> truth. I am no Christian and wasn't raised up as one either. I want a
> free Aryan nation and I can't stand the Jews. But for most of us
> nationalists it's all about race, not religion. I don't hate
> Christians but I don't see how anyone could swallow the Creationist
> fairy tale, anymore than the Holohoax fairy tale.
> Wolfgang Streicher.

Actually, most Creationists are far more reasonable than Holocaust deniers. I realize that isn't saying much....

--
Orac |"A statement of fact cannot be insolent."
|
|"If you cannot listen to the answers, why do you
| inconvenience me with questions?"


From: "tim gueguen" <ad058@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca>
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.jewish,alt.atheism,talk.atheism,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Holocaust Revisionism and Creationism Have Nothing In Common
Date: Sat, 06 Jul 2002 01:09:29 GMT

"Wolfgang Streicher" <wolfgang1488@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:16c94fdb.0207042207.6b2de59a@posting.google.com...

The usual crock of bollocks he and his ilk favour.

I can't help but wonder if people like Wolfie here are masochists. After all why would anyone deliberately post material that is sure to result in them being called, and quite rightly, an idiot, moron, kook etc? Could it be he and some of the others we seem to run across so often actually get off on being slagged off? Could it be he loves being called insulting names and thought of as a cretin?

tim gueguen 101867


From: Orac <Orac@wabcmail.com>
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.jewish,alt.atheism,talk.atheism,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Holocaust Revisionism and Creationism Have Nothing In Common
Date: Sat, 06 Jul 2002 21:55:56 -0400

In article <drrV8.7276$ou6.336116@news3.calgary.shaw.ca>, "tim gueguen" <ad058@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca> wrote:

> "Wolfgang Streicher" <wolfgang1488@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:16c94fdb.0207042207.6b2de59a@posting.google.com...
> The usual crock of bollocks he and his ilk favour.

> I can't help but wonder if people like Wolfie here are masochists. After
> all why would anyone deliberately post material that is sure to result in
> them being called, and quite rightly, an idiot, moron, kook etc? Could it
> be he and some of the others we seem to run across so often actually get off
> on being slagged off? Could it be he loves being called insulting names and
> thought of as a cretin?

I think he's too stupid to realize that nearly everyone here (even his ideological comrades) think he's a cretin.

--
Orac |"A statement of fact cannot be insolent."
|
|"If you cannot listen to the answers, why do you
| inconvenience me with questions?"


From: wolfgang1488@yahoo.com (Wolfgang Streicher)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.jewish,alt.atheism,talk.atheism,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Holocaust Revisionism and Creationism Have Nothing In Common
Date: 5 Jul 2002 19:56:27 -0700

Don't be impatient you wont make any money from this anyway. Or is impatience just a Jewish character trait. Yes the mass media is primarily Jewish controlled. However being a myopic American you assume everyone else in the world is American too. Like most National Socialists I am not American, so I would know little about the media in America. But there are nationalists in America who have put out a good documentary about the Jewish media control there. See http://www.natall.com/who-rules-america/ for the truth. Wolfgang Streicher.


From: edrhodes@hotmail.com (ed rhodes)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.jewish,alt.atheism,talk.atheism,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Holocaust Revisionism and Creationism Have Nothing In Common
Date: 6 Jul 2002 11:46:53 -0700

wolfgang1488@yahoo.com (Wolfgang Streicher) wrote in message news:<16c94fdb.0207051856.3efb8d33@posting.google.com>...

> Don't be impatient you wont make any money from this anyway. Or is
> impatience just a Jewish character trait. Yes the mass media is
> primarily Jewish controlled. However being a myopic American you
> assume everyone else in the world is American too. Like most National
> Socialists I am not American, so I would know little about the media
> in America. But there are nationalists in America who have put out a
> good documentary about the Jewish media control there. See
> http://www.natall.com/who-rules-america/ for the truth.
> Wolfgang Streicher.

You wouldn't know <truth> if it walked up to you and bit you in the ass!


From: buyensl@interlacken.com (Lorrill Buyens)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.jewish,alt.atheism,talk.atheism,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Holocaust Revisionism and Creationism Have Nothing In Common
Date: Mon, 08 Jul 2002 02:12:37 GMT

Right before wolfgang1488@yahoo.com (Wolfgang Streicher) was eaten by cannibals on 5 Jul 2002 19:56:27 -0700, they issued this poignant cry for help:

>Don't be impatient you wont make any money from this anyway. Or is
>impatience just a Jewish character trait. Yes the mass media is
>primarily Jewish controlled.

That must be why they have so many programs about Jews. Why, there's...there's...yaknow, I can't recall *any* programs with so much as *one* Jewish major character in recent years...

--
"There can be only one Silly Vampire Programme, and 'It
is I, Count Homogenized' has had that title sewn up since
about 1978..."
- Dave Joll, in rec.arts.drwho


From: "tim gueguen" <ad058@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca>
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.jewish,alt.atheism,talk.atheism,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Holocaust Revisionism and Creationism Have Nothing In Common
Date: Mon, 08 Jul 2002 05:42:27 GMT

"Lorrill Buyens" <buyensl@interlacken.com> wrote in message news:3d27a4a3.360014036@news.CIS.DFN.DE...

> Right before wolfgang1488@yahoo.com (Wolfgang Streicher) was eaten by
> cannibals on 5 Jul 2002 19:56:27 -0700, they issued this poignant cry
> for help:

> >Don't be impatient you wont make any money from this anyway. Or is
> >impatience just a Jewish character trait. Yes the mass media is
> >primarily Jewish controlled.

> That must be why they have so many programs about Jews. Why,
> there's...there's...yaknow, I can't recall *any* programs with so much
> as *one* Jewish major character in recent years...

Seinfeld? I think Mark Greene on ER was supposed to be Jewish, altho' not a practicing Jew. In any case Irish Catholics and Italians are probably every bit as common as Jews as "minority" characters on tv and in the movies.

tim gueguen 101867


From: knight@indystart.com (Black Knight)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.jewish,alt.atheism,talk.atheism,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Holocaust Revisionism and Creationism Have Nothing In Common
Date: 8 Jul 2002 00:06:38 -0700

buyensl@interlacken.com (Lorrill Buyens) wrote in message news:<3d27a4a3.360014036@news.CIS.DFN.DE>...

> Right before wolfgang1488@yahoo.com (Wolfgang Streicher) was eaten by
> cannibals on 5 Jul 2002 19:56:27 -0700, they issued this poignant cry
> for help:

Where are those cannibals buried? They must have gotten terminal nausea from munching on Wolfie. Actually, they probably got nauseous from just listening to Wolfie. I know I have.

<deletia>

Bruno


From: "Chris Nelson" <criskity1@insightBBB.Replace_BBB_with_BB_and_put_dot-com_after_it>
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.jewish,alt.atheism,talk.atheism,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Holocaust Revisionism and Creationism Have Nothing In Common
Date: Sun, 07 Jul 2002 02:13:55 GMT

"Wolfgang Streicher" <wolfgang1488@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:16c94fdb.0207042207.6b2de59a@posting.google.com...

> The media like it or not is mostly Jewish controlled. So it will try
> to portray Aryan nationalists and revisionists as Christian
> creationist crackpots. In fact nothing could be further from the
> truth. I am no Christian and wasn't raised up as one either. I want a
> free Aryan nation and I can't stand the Jews. But for most of us
> nationalists it's all about race, not religion. I don't hate
> Christians but I don't see how anyone could swallow the Creationist
> fairy tale, anymore than the Holohoax fairy tale.
> Wolfgang Streicher.

Fuck off, bigot. Your kind are not welcome in alt.atheism.

--
Chris


From: "Kurt Knoll" <kknoll@monarch.net>
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.jewish,alt.atheism,talk.atheism,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Holocaust Revisionism and Creationism Have Nothing In Common
Date: Sat, 6 Jul 2002 20:13:38 -0700

Don't know why you are upset what does atheism stand for.

Kurt Knoll.


From: "Arjan" <arjan@morgaine.demon.nl>
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.jewish,alt.atheism,talk.atheism,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Holocaust Revisionism and Creationism Have Nothing In Common
Date: Sun, 7 Jul 2002 09:55:37 +0200

"Kurt Knoll" <kknoll@monarch.net> wrote in message news:1026012498.371830@critter.monarch.net...

> Don't know why you are upset what does atheism stand for.

Accepting truth as it is which you don't.

> Kurt Knoll.
> =====
> "Chris Nelson"
> <criskity1@insightBBB.Replace_BBB_with_BB_and_put_dot-com_after_it>
> wrote in message news:DtNV8.423622$352.56936@sccrnsc02...
> > "Wolfgang Streicher" <wolfgang1488@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> > news:16c94fdb.0207042207.6b2de59a@posting.google.com...
> > > The media like it or not is mostly Jewish controlled.

Strange were do all those pro palestinian articles come from in some parts of the european medea? But even the most pro palestinian anti Israel article I read never denied the holocaust.

> > >So it will try
> > > to portray Aryan nationalists and revisionists as Christian
> > > creationist crackpots.

Just crackpots like creationist crackpots.

But there are other crackpots as well. Maybe part of government policy to bring mental patients back in society.

> > > In fact nothing could be further from the
> > > truth. I am no Christian and wasn't raised up as one either. I want
> > > a free Aryan nation

We have seen how free your Aryan nation was.

> > > and I can't stand the Jews.
> > > But for most of us nationalists it's all about race,
> > > not religion.

So you are not in Aryan mysticism like Himler and his cronies? Blut und bodem? You are missing something.

> > > I don't hate Christians but I don't see how anyone
> > > could swallow the Creationist fairy tale,

You should know. You are swallowing all sorts of fairy tales. But a creationist can be funny. You are not.

Is holocaust denying still a criminal act in Germany?

> > > anymore than the Holohoax fairy tale.

Grow up and read some real history books.

> > > Wolfgang Streicher.

> > Fuck off, bigot. Your kind are not welcome in alt.atheism.
> > --
> > Chris

Arjan


From: "Chris Nelson" <criskity1@insightBBB.Replace_BBB_with_BB_and_put_dot-com_after_it>
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.jewish,alt.atheism,talk.atheism,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Holocaust Revisionism and Creationism Have Nothing In Common
Date: Sun, 07 Jul 2002 15:11:15 GMT
Xref: sn-us alt.revisionism:842207 soc.culture.jewish:846317 alt.atheism:2303763 talk.atheism:349914 sci.skeptic:651571

"Kurt Knoll" <kknoll@monarch.net> wrote in message news:1026012498.371830@critter.monarch.net...

> Don't know why you are upset what does atheism stand for.

Atheism is the lack of belief in gods. It is NOT racism.

Indeed, atheism is usually a product of rational thinking, while racism is ALWAYS a product of sick, twisted, irrational thinking. Therefore it is rare to find atheists who are racist.

--
Chris


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---

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