The cure for cults that want to deny others
their freedom of speech is more freedom of speech
-- Fredric Rice


Creationist Cults


September 20, 1988
7:30 P.M.
Northland Public Library
Dr. Duane Gish
Dr. Awbrey

Christian Heritage


Last month you saw Dr. Gish and Dr. Doolittle debate at Liberty University. Now that you have seen the worst the evolutionist camp can provide, come to see the best that they can do. This month will prove be the much better. Dr. Gish and Dr. Awbrey debated recently at Christian Heritage College in San Diego, California, the home of the Institute for Creation Research.

Dr. Awbrey is a strong opponent of the creation model of origins. He teaches a university course which compares the evolution model with the creation model.

Dr. Duane Gish is from the Institution for Creation Research in San Diego. ICR is the foremost national organization concern- ing itself with the creation/evolution controversy. I encourage everyone to get on the mailing list for Acts & Facts, their FREE monthly newsletter.

Also, there's no "controversy." Scientists speaking within their own venue don't debate the fact that evolution happens. What they debate is how evolution happens. Religious occultism such as Creationist crap doesn't factor into controversy since science doesn't concern itself with the untestable. Creationist cults like to pretend that there's some big "controversy among scientists and creationists" wherein creationist cult followers argue that the observed facts of evolution doesn't happen some how. In fact that's another creationist lie; no scientist in the venue would pretend to presume that evolution doesn't happen. - flr

Thirty-five attended our meeting in August to see the debate. Everyone appreciated the discussion. The reason this particular debate was so controversial was Dr. Doolittle's poor showing. He mismanaged his time. Due to the one-hour television show format, he had only eighteen minutes for his primary presentation. He used most of that time for an introduction that can only be described as a diatribe against "The Religion" of creation. He did not mention of any scientific data to support evolution.

Dr. Duane Gish then presented the whole scientific litany of creation research and data. Creation -- not evolution -- better describes the results of that data. Dr. Gish showed that data from the most fundamental laws of science, from thermodynamics, from the fossil record, and from studies in mathematical probabilities, etc.

In his time to reply Dr. Doolittle was better, but by then he kept saying how he lost his chance to put forward the best arguments. He was trying to get out his original material, and was not truly able to respond to Gish's points.

This month, we will continue with a famous debate between Gish and Dr. Awbrey, a professor in the San Diego area.

This month's debate is more recent, and there is a more thorough presentation of the scientific data on both sides because of a two hour format. So, though the outside temperatures are lower, you will find that the debate temperature will be much higher.

These two men attack the problem with skill and enthusiasm. They approach the issue of creation/evolution from opposite convictions, but provide the audience with the information needed to evaluate the clarity of each of their visions on the origin's question.

This debate is especially challenging because it illuminates the two aspects of origins. One perspective argues that we got here because of planning and the other that we are here due to a cosmic accident or random happenstance. You can judge and evaluate the data and draw your own conclusions. This is an excellent debate with a sound rebuttal to the other's position points.


1. We have slightly changed our focus to the fall dinner. We want a fellowship dinner that will expand the number of people who are aware of the CSF. The dinner's objective will be to directly enlarge the active membership. In addition to our current CSF members, we will energetically seek out new ones. Advertising through the ORIGINS Program on Channel 40, WPCB-TV, we hope to reach others who might not know of our tri-state CSF. We want to reach concerned people in the area.

We are finalizing plans for the dinner: -- program, location, cost, etc. Next month's letter should have all the details for you. I anticipate the program for this special evening will be excellent. We are looking at dates toward the end of October or early November, on a Friday or Saturday evening.

2. Remember to look at the date on your mailing label. This date shows your CSF status. Please examine this. If your membership has expired send the yearly renewal of only $12, our cost of mailing to you.

3. Creationists from around the country have been calling the CSF computer. The CSF/ICC computer is working and operational. Just use your computer modem communications program to connect. The phone number is 243-0675, with 8 bits, no parity, 1 stop bit. That describes the electronic communications protocol the two computers need to know to talk to each other. These numbers and concepts often only make sense when you get a computer and begin to use the communications features. We will be including articles and other items of interest about creation/evolution on this computer.

All our meetings are Free
& Open to the Public

Henry A. Jackson III

CSF 362 Ashland Avenue, Pittsburgh, PA 15228 (412) 341-4908


Origins Talk RBBS * (314) 821-1078

Missouri Association for Creation, Inc.
405 North Sappington Road
Glendale, MO 63122-4729
(314) 821-1234

Also call: Students for Origins Research CREVO BBS
(719) 528-1363

Any text written by the creationist cult which may be quoted within this criticial examination of the creationist cult is provided according to U. S. Code Title 17 "Fair Use" dictates which may be reviewed at

"You can lie about ICR all you want." -- Jason Daniel Henderson

"Thank you for your permission however there's never any need to.
Creationist propaganda is already self-debunking." -- Fredric L. Rice


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