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[ref001] #apologetics: DEBATE LOGS - 5/13/96 #apologetics: DEBATE LOGS - 5/13/96 [17:58] ProfG (wgreen01@fiudial60.fiu.edu) joined #apologetics. [18:22] Melkor (Morgoth@Cb.globalx.net) joined #apologetics. [18:22] heh [18:22] if a tree falls in the woods and no one is around to hear it does it make a noise? [18:22] hello [18:23] hiya Mel [18:23] how r u today prof? [18:23] better :-) [18:23] compared to what? [18:23] can type again :-) [18:23] had an accident [18:23] that could be handy [18:23] what happened? [18:23] riding my bicycle, got hit by a car heheheh [18:24] that just might hurt [18:24] that's Miami fer ya [18:24] dislocated shoulder [18:24] so...if a tree falls in the woods and no one is around to hear it does it make a noise? [18:24] of course [18:24] nope it doesn't [18:24] noise is not dependent upon the hearer [18:25] if no one was around to hear it then it didn't make a noise [18:25] of course it depends on what u think reality is [18:25] noise is sound waves travelling through the air. that doesn't change just because there is no receptor [18:26] i am well aware of the scientific definition of noise [18:26] that's nice. [18:26] ya it is:) [18:26] :-) [18:26] is svenson my best buddy now? :-) [18:26] i think that question has more to do with whether there is reality outside of mans mind [18:26] oh ya he loves u [18:26] heh [18:27] I don't think that question has much to do with that at all. [18:27] well i do...in a sense [18:27] what sense is that? [18:28] without mankind there is nothing [18:28] prove it [18:28] reality doesn't exist [18:28] it can't be proven [18:28] just a thought [18:28] then why should I believe it? [18:28] i had this morning [18:28] i'm not telling u 2 [18:28] oh. [18:28] just giving u something to think about [18:29] well, that certainly is interesting. [18:29] Topic changed by ApoloBot!bibleman@serss0.fiu.edu: The Home of Rational Theism [18:29] Apolo's timer went off :-) [18:29] ok...thought there was a ghost in here or something [18:29] SynnerJim (SynnerJim@www-38-236.gnn.com) joined #apologetics. [18:29] hello Jim :-) [18:29] Well, well [18:30] and well [18:30] Don't give me no smiley faces [18:30] lol [18:30] whoa [18:30] ;-> [18:30] tensions rise [18:30] 8) [18:31] =:^> [18:31] W (cservice@undernet.org) got netsplit. [18:31] So you apologize for xianity here?...must be a full time job [18:31] :~( [18:31] whoa netsplit [18:31] Nick change: Melkor -> Meaglin [18:31] doh [18:31] And "rational theism"? ...an oxymoron if there ever was one [18:32] Does that involve the traditional xian means of defence?...like burnings at the stake, crematoria & mass graves? [18:32] there r none that doeth good? [18:33] whoever wrote that is a fool [18:33] I actually own a couple bibles...they're not as fun as the other mythologies I own [18:33] Jim: no, those aren't "Christian" means of defense, for they are not Biblical apologetics [18:34] A xian is a xian is a xian [18:34] Jim: tell me what you think of the Bibles you own. [18:34] Meaglin: no, not one [18:34] profg....my mother does good [18:34] Not much... I see a basically bigoted world view reflected in them [18:35] so i guess that is wrong [18:35] Jim: do you not have a "bigoted world view"? [18:35] Not really.... [18:35] W (cservice@undernet.org) returned to #apologetics. [18:35] Jim: I'll bet you do. [18:35] if man does not exist...nothing exists [18:35] I wouldn't declare those who disagree with me "Satanic", like xians do [18:35] Meaglin: prove your assertion. [18:36] Mode change '+o W ' by okc.ok.us.undernet.org [18:36] :( [18:36] :) [18:36] Jim: no, but you declare them "wrong" [18:36] like i said profg...just something to think about [18:36] Prof...have you read Elaine Pagels latest book, "The Origin of Satan"? [18:36] think about in what way, Meaglin? [18:36] profg..that verse in not correct...my mother is a good person [18:36] any way u want [18:36] no, Jim, I haven't read that particular title. [18:36] Yeah, but Prof....I don't burn people at the stake [18:37] Meaglin: how do you know your mother is a good person? [18:37] Jim: neither do I. :-) [18:37] because i see her do "good" things [18:37] Meaglin: how do you know those things are "good"? [18:37] You're a xian Prof...sure you do [18:37] she cares about other people [18:37] Jim: prove I do. [18:37] Meaglin: how do you know that that is a good thing? [18:37] profg...good is what u think it is [18:37] Isn't that the REAL threat behind the "fires of hell"? [18:38] Meaglin: so if "good is what u think it is" then how can I be wrong if I say your mother is not good? [18:38] Jim: what? [18:38] W (cservice@undernet.org) got netsplit. [18:38] The xian church burned witches, Cathars, Templars & Jews at the stake [18:38] W (cservice@undernet.org) returned to #apologetics. [18:38] Mode change '+o W ' by channels2.undernet.org [18:38] profg....because i disagree [18:39] Jim: sinful men in the Roman Catholic church did that. [18:39] Ergo, it is a typical way for xians to deal with those who disagree with them [18:39] i don't doubt for a minute u think my mother is not good [18:39] Meaglin: prove you are right and I am wrong then. [18:39] i can prove nothing....it is irrelevant [18:39] Well, the English church did their share...as did the Presbyterians in Scotland [18:40] what is irrelevant? [18:40] proving it [18:40] i think it is so it doesn't matter [18:40] Jim: if a person calls himself a logician and commits nothing but logical fallacies and says they are not illogical, is that person truly a logician? [18:41] Meaglin: a difficult way to live one's life. [18:41] not really [18:41] But all xians are believers in those bibles [18:41] "I think the light is green so it doesn't matter" [18:41] but the light is red [18:41] oops [18:41] profg..not in the least [18:41] They found justification in [18:41] red is white and white is black [18:41] But...there is no light [18:42] Jim: prove that all people who call themselves Christians are believers in the whole Bible. [18:42] A traffic light is real [18:42] Jim: you made a universal statement, now please prove it. [18:42] Nope.... [18:42] Meaglin: uhhhh... make some sense please? [18:42] prof..prove my statement wrong [18:42] nope is right [18:42] you can't prove it, Jim [18:42] baseless [18:42] You xians start pogroms at the drop of a hat...you're tryin to start one now [18:43] "You atheists massacre millions at the drop of a hat ... you're trying to do so now" [18:43] synner...who cares about xianity and petty bickering...i need my color wheel finished for tommorow [18:43] red is white and white is black [18:44] prof..prove my statement wrong [18:44] Sure I can...all those folks I mentioned used your bibles for their own ends...ergo those who use those bibles must at least accept those methods [18:44] Jim: the actions of a few who claim to follow a belief system do not prove whether a particular belief system is right or wrong. [18:44] synner arguing whether god exists is pointless [18:44] Meaglin: the proof is in the definition [18:44] Tell that to the Albigenes, Prof [18:45] what definition? [18:45] Meaglin: red is not white because red is not defined as white. [18:45] prove it isn't [18:45] Ther is no argument Meaglin...there are no gods...only believers in them [18:45] the proof is in the definition. [18:46] prove the definition is correct [18:46] "there are no atheists...only people who claim to be atheists" [18:46] synner it doesn't matter if there is a god or not [18:46] What color of red [18:46] Optical colors or pigments? [18:46] Meaglin: because for red to be white would be a logical fallacy. Unless you are willing to discard logic and be illogical and irrational. [18:47] which wouldn't surprise me about now. [18:47] how is it a logical fallacy? [18:47] Sure it does Meaglin..at its root it is basically a political issue [18:47] Topic changed by ApoloBot!bibleman@serss0.fiu.edu: There are no atheists...only people who claim to be atheists [18:48] It's not Meaglin..ProfG's root cause (god) is the logical fallacy [18:48] damn...gotta go...i'll be back though...prof..there is no logical way of thinking [18:48] Meaglin: "My car is in the driveway, and my car is not in the driveway." logical fallacy. "red is red, and red is not red." logical fallacy. [18:48] profg..your car is everywhere at once..prove it isn't [18:48] Jim: you aren't an atheist. [18:48] later [18:48] Meaglin (Morgoth@Cb.globalx.net) left irc: [18:48] doh [18:49] Bye xians..hope people treat you the way you've treated them! [18:49] SynnerJim (SynnerJim@www-38-236.gnn.com) left #apologetics. 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