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ELEVENTH MEETING Thursday Evening, 20th June, 1974 A Dhamma Explanation Tan Acharn said: When people have liked or loved anything in their hearts and when talk of that thing occurs it makes them happy and enthusiastic. For example, when a sportsman speaks about sport he can go on endlessly, even forgetting to take a meal or drink anything, for he is sustained by the fun he is having. People who practise Dhamma also do this, for they speak about Dhamma and in particular about the field of practice, and when they speak about meditation (Citta Bhavana) they are likely to become more and more engrossed until they forget time. The hours pass and they never notice it when they talk together about Dhamma and practice and however many are present it is a fascinating story. The Teacher trains and teaches them about the attainment of Samadhi, the Samapattis (Jhana), mindfulness and wisdom. They talk about "getting rid of" -- getting rid of the Kilesas of various kinds by means of the power of mindfulness, wisdom, faith and effort step by step, and this makes them even more engrossed in following what he says. Even if the "owner" has not yet been able to experience Dhamma in any of the ways that his Teacher has, it still makes him cheerful and joyful in the Dhamma which the Teacher has practised, known and seen and come to tell them in a manner that is fascinating, so that they never feel that they have had too much of it. The Lord said that "The flavour of Dhamma is superior to all other flavours;" of all flavours none tastes better than Dhamma. If the taste of Dhamma were not so supremely excellent, the "Three Worlds" would be unlikely to have paid homage to and worshipped the Dhamma; and then the Dhamma would not have been considered as supreme, it would not be suitable as a refuge (Sarana), as something to hold on to, as something certain, nor as something in which all good and honest people can have implicit faith. The extent to which all Buddhists pay homage to and have faith in the Dhamma is because the Dhamma is a thing of excellence as befits the renown and prestige of Dhamma that spreads out from each of the Buddhas and the Savaka Sangha of each of the "World Teachers" (Buddhas) respectively, until it came down to us. That it came down to us was entirely due to those who, after having partaken of the "taste of Dhamma" with their hearts, then brought out this Dhamma which they had known, seen and experienced and taught it to the world right up to the present time. They did not guess or suppose that the taste of Dhamma was superior to all other tastes, for they knew the taste of Dhamma as well as seeing absolutely clearly into all aspects of Dhamma. Then they brought out that knowledge, that "revelation," and proclaimed and taught the World in accordance with the fundamental truths which they had known and seen by taking their own knowing and seeing as evidence in proclaiming Dhamma and teaching the World. When we say: "Dhammam Saranam Gacchami," (I take refuge in Dhamma), how much depth or profundity has it? It is not a superficial Dhamma which one can know and see on the surface and teach the world in a superficial way. For the Lord knew the truth and taught the truth of Dhamma to the world at all levels. Therefore those who listen should listen with interest and practise with sincerity. The result which they get from Dhamma will be Dhamma that reaches the heart stage by stage, going right up until the various kinds of Kilesas are removed. In fact they can all be removed entirely to the satisfaction of one's heart, so that one knows this clearly in one's own heart, as it says in the Dhamma teaching: "Sanditthiko" -- knowing for oneself and seeing for oneself. Even if the Lord Buddha was sitting in front of one one would not then waste time asking any questions, because the truth is the same truth and the same experience. But in the practice of Dhamma amongst all those who are the highest sages, they are very careful, because Dhamma is not like the "world." If Dhamma were like the world it would not be called Dhamma because it would be the same thing as saying "the world" and just this one word would be enough, and it would be all mixed in with the way of the world. But there is this word because Dhamma and the "world" are not the same and even though they are both in the world together, they are not one and the same thing. It is only that they are here interfused with each other, but not the same thing, for they just dwell together, like all of us here are just dwelling together at present -- Bhikkhus and lay-people dwelling together, but not one and the same, men and women dwelling together, but not one and the same, children and adults dwelling together, but not one and the same. Thus, although they are living together they are separate individuals, each one merely living there. It is like this with Dhamma and the world. The highest Sages practised until they knew by experience clearly in their own hearts, and they then led the religion steadily and consistently without acting in gross or unseemly ways in the eyes and ears of those who had faith in Buddhism. This refers to the Lord Buddha and the Savaka Arahants who brought Buddhism to us for us to see and admire in the most beautiful and seemly way. They did not bring it in a manner that would surprise and disturb the listener. Here, I will tell you an illustrative story for you who are practising Dhamma. For it may be with some of you that this Dhamma "overflows" and when there is occasion you let it out, or show it off, without any shame or feeling of being open to criticism. This happens because of a desire to become famous or distinguished -- which is nothing but the work of the Kilesas pushing it out. Therefore I will tell you this story of the wise men who followed the way of the Buddha -- a moral lesson. The Venerable Assaji had penetrated (Dhamma) and become an Arahant with all the five Pancavaggi who were the first five Savakas of the Lord Buddha. The Ven. Annakondanna was the first and Ven. Upatissa, who became the Ven. Sariputta, the highest of the Savakas placed symbolically on the right hand side of the Lord Buddha, had at this time not yet become one of the Savakas and he was ordained in the institution of wandering religious mendicants (Paribbajaka) and practising according to the customs of such people at that time. When he saw Ven. Assaji who was very beautiful and seemly in all his actions and manners -- walking forward, withdrawing backwards, looking to the right and left, with a very composed deportment which instilled great respect and confidence, he followed stealthily behind him. As soon as they were out of the village he went up and asked him where he lived and about his Uppajjhaya and Acariya. He replied only briefly to the question about what Dhamma the Teacher (the Buddha) or his Acariya taught, saying "I have no very great knowledge so I will just speak of it in brief for you to hear. 'Ye Dhamma Hetupabhava...etc.' -- 'All Dhammas arise from a cause; when they die away the cause must die away first.' The Lord Buddha taught like this. That is all." Then Sariputta the Paribbajaka penetrated through and immediately became Sotapanna. As for Assaji who was the teacher, he did not then say of himself that he was one of the Arahants, in fact he did not say anything at all. But Ven. Sariputta may have been able to know his attainment in Dhamma when he heard the Dhamma in brief which Ven. Assaji taught him, because in the stage of Sotapatti Magga and Sotapatti Phala it is possible to penetrate deeply and to know the truth of someone who has a level of attainment higher than oneself. Therefore Ven. Assaji was able to teach him a wonderful kind of Dhamma which he had never heard before, so that he penetrated Dhamma. But it seemed from the texts that Ven. Sariputta never heard Ven. Assaji say that he was an Arahant, because Ven. Assaji did not make any outward show of being an Arahant. This is the first example to illustrate what was previously said. The second story concerns Mr. Kamanit [*] who met the Lord Buddha in the house of a potter. When the Lord asked him where he was going he said he was going to see the Buddha. The Lord asked "Where are you going so as to see the Buddha"? and he replied "I am going a long way for the Lord is sure to be at Savatthi." But the Lord did not say that he was the Lord Buddha. How profound was the subtlety of the wisest sage in not telling him, for the Lord knew all the ways of cause and effect and that to tell him would have led to some form of loss. When he had weighed up the situation he saw that it was of greater value not to tell, so he left without saying anything about his being the Lord Buddha, even though Mr. Kamanit was still searching for the Lord. [*] This story comes from a book which is used in Thailand as a school study book. It was originally translated into Thai from English, and the English version was in turn translated from German having been written by Karl Adolph Gjellerup, a Danish Nobel prize writer. The original book was titled "Der Pilger Kamanita" and it is based on the life of the Lord Buddha, His Dhamma and stories from various Suttas. (For this information I am indebted to Mr. Chuan Sornsongkram of the Chuan Printing Press. Ven. Pannavaddho). As soon as the dawn came he left the Lord Buddha and shortly met Ven. Sariputta and Ven. Moggallana who were walking along the road towards him, going to see the Lord Buddha in the pottery and they questioned Mr. Kamanit who said that he was going to see the Buddha. Both of the Savakas asked him whether when he came through that place he had met anyone there. He said that he met a Samana in the pottery and he was one whose behaviour and manners made one respect and trust him very much. "He was zealously practising all last night and he taught Dhamma (Desana) in a melodious, beautiful voice and what he said went to the heart and was very impressive. But I am still not satisfied and want to go and meet the Lord Buddha so I have come from there." Ven. Sariputta and Ven. Moggallana did not say anything to let him know that the person he had met was the Lord Buddha. Why did they say nothing? Because this is the way of the sages, for if anyone was to say anything it was for the Lord Buddha to say it first. For whatever the need was to let Mr. Kamanit stay for some time and then go on and meet Sariputta and Moggallana on the road, they only spoke together when his back was turned, saying: "Eh! That fellow has no idea that he has already met the Buddha, but the Lord did not say anything to him, and in short, because of that we cannot say anything also." This is how the Sages immediately understand each other and their knowledge and understanding does not lead to disagreement, unlike people who have all the Kilesas, who only want to "sell themselves" and incite the Kilesas making them increasingly pile up in the Citta instead of making the effort to get rid of them. In the practice of Dhamma in the sphere of Buddhism, this sort of thing tends to happen all the time. Therefore I have anxious thoughts, though in truth I should be more anxious for myself than for others. But I cannot help being anxious for all our companions including Upasakas and Upasikas and all others who have Saddha in a gradually widening circle. Suppose in a particular case something happens that is improper and disturbing in a way for one who wants to be a learned sage following the path of the Lord Buddha, it is likely to cause deterioration and harm to himself and to Buddhism. Those who practise Dhamma should therefore always be self-controlled and careful to maintain virtue, because Dhamma is different from the world. In the practice of Dhamma, even though someone truly aims for Magga, Phala, and Nibbana until he is able to penetrate to the desired goal of "Arahatta Phala," such a person would not say that he knew that he had attained Enlightenment. Why? Because how could the words "I have attained Enlightenment" be of any use as a means of helping the listener? One cannot see how; but they could be a basis for vainly boosting one's own state in accordance with what the world praises -- that is about all. The Lord therefore did not do this, but he used the method of giving advice over and over again by teaching the way of causes and the way of results which it was appropriate to teach in a manner that was more or less strong or gentle accordingly. He therefore taught according to the level of attainment of whoever came to be trained, and depending on the time, place, and people and their status and state, he taught and trained them in ways that were suitable. He taught according to the ways of cause and effect, but he did not say that he was accomplished in Dhamma up to such and such a level for this would be an unseemly thing to do. The Lord was not addicted to speaking because it is not in harmony or appropriate to the status of a sage. In the time of the Buddha the Bhikkhus had great confidence in each other, and they were very careful about this. Even in the present time, if there is someone who has truly followed the way of the Lord Buddha, one should understand that he will not deviate from this track. This is however not so with those present day "Sages" of whom there are a large number, and one can count the one who is speaking as one of them also, that are always overflowing and waiting to go "overboard." If this is the case, it shows that the excess which is spilling over the "edge" of the Citta is not Dhamma. If there is true knowing and seeing let it just resound within one's own heart -- do not let it go out externally where it can create disturbance. A sharp blade should be kept in its sheath where it will be safe. To throw it about the place, whatever word or blade or weapon it is, is dangerous both to oneself and others. If one puts it away properly it is not dangerous, in fact one can get nothing but value from it. When someone advertises boastfully saying, "I have attained Sotapanna, Sakadagami, Anagami, or Arahant," there is no reason why anyone who hears this should be glad, in fact it may change their faith in him, making it gradually diminish and they then see the Kilesas of that person quite clearly and they just feel wearied and fed up and that there is nothing else worth respecting in that person. Therefore, all those who practise, if they are people who aim truly for Dhamma, must aim for reason rather than announcing Dhamma of this kind outwardly, which is not the way of the Lord Buddha -- but the way of a rotten fish which announces itself so that flies swarm around. Announcing and selling rotten fish to the flies is the way of rotten fish. When we hear or smell them they irritate our ears and nose and the irritation seeps into the heart. Why is it so irritating as this, for if the Dhamma is a true Dhamma, when these things go into the Citta they make one feel irritated and wearied of it all? Various people variously aim for gain and Dhamma (Attha Dhamma) of the higher levels. But when any of them announced things of such a kind that one cannot find any reason in them it means that they are repressed in their hearts -- or they have a hunger in their hearts. So when they say these things they are not good to hear. But even though the person himself may not be aware of his state, if other people admonish and warn him he should listen. If he is also a person who has been aiming for gain and Dhamma he should become aware of himself and be more restrained and careful of himself in the future. Do not turn yourself into a rotten fish within Buddhism, for this Dhamma is sweet smelling and it has led people to respect and pay homage (Puja) to it throughout the world for a long time. Today I will just explain this far to begin with. Ven. Panna will translate for you. If I speak a lot he will forget much of what I have said already. (After translating into English there was still some time to spare to Tan Acharn spoke further as follows:) A story of the present time, Professor Ouay (Dr. Ouay Ketusingh). I wonder if you have heard this one? It has been repeated so much that it has now become something of a legend. There is a Bhikkhu of the present time and not very long ago while Ven. Acariya Mun was alive, who went together with some Bhikkhus to practise and train themselves in the way of Kammatthana Dhamma to a hill, but there is no need to say in which province they went to do their meditation. While doing their meditation at about midnight, this Bhikkhu thought that he had penetrated Dhamma and become Arahant, but what he was investigating in his meditation is not known. His hand felt in his handbag and he brought out his snuff pipe which he blew as a whistle -- Peep! The other two Bhikkhus who were with him on this hill quickly ran to find him for they did not know what danger he was in. They never thought that if he had penetrated Dhamma he would blow a whistle, so they thought there was some danger. "Hey, what's the matter?" "Nothing is the matter but I have just attained." "Heck! You've attained what?" "I've attained Arahantship!" The two Bhikkhus said nothing -- they probably did not have the heart to. This thing about reaching Arahantship may be alright but what was more important than that was..."O-ho! Having attained Arahantship you blow a whistle; what level is this?" This was their doubt but they did not say anything because having thought about it in various ways they returned tired of it. Later on, one night and once again about midnight, the two Bhikkhus heard the whistle blow again. They thought, "He's probably attained to nobody knows what level now!" But they could not not go and see him because the three of them were living together in case of real danger coming to them, so it was their duty to help each other. So the two of them came back to look for the Bhikkhu who blew the whistle and they asked him: "You blew the whistle again this time, so what further level have you attained? Have you reached the level of madness, for whether Arahant or whatever else it's a real nuisance." This time he announced: "The other night I thought wrongly I had attained so I blew the whistle to call you and tell you for I was very glad. But then tonight I examined and found that I had not attained so I had to blow the whistle so as to let you know that in truth I had not attained." The two Bhikkhus saw the funny side of it and felt sorry about the madness of this "whistling Arahant." They told other Bhikkhus until it became a well-known story. There is another story about this Bhikkhu, for one day he was sitting in meditation and saw a disc of light like the sun as big as a coconut falling down in front of him. His Citta had attained Samadhi and saw light, and it went out following it. The light moved away so he got up from where he was sitting and followed it without knowing what he was doing. The light went up a tree and he went up following it also. The light then floated up into the sky and disappeared. Then his awareness returned and he realised that he was up a tree and he wept until other Bhikkhus came running to see and to help him to get down. Then they asked him all about it and they heard that Samadhi had led him to float up into this tree. More than two years ago, a Samanera told me a story when I was staying in a certain Wat. This Samanera came up to see me at the same time as another Bhikkhu, and he (the Samanera) told about knowing various things. [*] I listened right through until he had finished and then I said: -- Samanera, you must be careful; you will grasp at shadows or go up a tree following a light." I did not know what this Samanera had been like in the past, but later on someone told me that this Samanera had already led some Bhikkhus to follow a light. The light led him into the forest and the Samanera ran after it and called the Bhikkhus to come and help to catch this light and he got those Bhikkhus who did not know about this to follow him and search for this light. There was a lot of noise and commotion until a Bhikkhu who was there and knew about him came to see and stopped it and dispersed them. [*] This means "Knowing by psychic means." Truly speaking, this type of Citta is not found in many people; in fact only about five percent are like this. If they are under the right teacher, people of this sort are good and they have adventurous natures. I have also been of this kind, but I did not send the Citta out externally for I knew what it was up to -- light shooting up as though flying up into the sky, so strong it seemed that if one should die at that time there would have been nothing left to cremate. [*] I knew about it then and withdrew the Citta to its original base. As soon as the Citta saw this it immediately died away. The "owner" must go through many mad things like this, then he will know about various things concerning those who practise, enough for his needs and he can correct people without going off the path or flying up into the sky -- even without wings! [*] This is just an exclamation and must not be taken literally. At one time I was sitting doing meditation in a shelter in a village, in a place where there was a very fierce "Pob" [*] which could even possess a Bhikkhu. I was doing meditation in the forest at 4.00 o'clock in the morning, and saw a person coming whom the villagers had said was the "Pob." His eyes were shifty and restless and he came in to where I was resting and then walked off to another village. While doing meditation I did not know where I was and as soon as the ghost came and met me while I was sitting in Samadhi meditation I ducked and then my body fell down with a thump. When I became aware of myself I was very amused for I knew that the Citta had done this to me, but I did not tell anyone about it. [*] A kind of ghost which enters people and lives on the vitality of the person so that the person grows weak and eventually dies -- said to be common in Thailand. Whatever one sees and feels one must examine with wisdom to find out for sure what it is and one must find the way to cure it. If anything comes one's way and one assumes that it is absolutely real and true, one will deludedly go wrong. One must know for oneself and examine oneself constantly. If one does not know one cannot teach others. The characteristics of some Cittas are very strange and if they do not have a teacher they will be lost. But if they do have a teacher to give them careful advice, such people can quickly make valuable gains which they can use to advantage. But they must train in mindfulness and wisdom so as to know what the Citta is up to, then it will not be able to get lost and will be of widespread value -- more than one would imagine. The Citta and the objects (Arammana) of the Citta are quite bizarre and it is difficult to describe what truly happens. But in the case of those who have similar characteristics, who also practise Dhamma and who have had similar experiences, they can speak together and understand each other. This is like people who learn a technical subject and can speak together about it, whereas others cannot understand. * * * Questions and Answers Q1 W1: In England there are no good Acariyas living here so what should we do about it? A: If there is no Acariya available one must practise Samadhi on one's own and investigate (examine) so as to keep up with it -- and one must do it a lot. If the Citta which has tendencies of wanting to know about external things that happen while doing Samadhi, is released and allowed to go out externally to oneself -- in other words going out to know and see various things, one may think that one has gained the "Deva ear" (Clairaudience), the "Deva eye" (Clairvoyance), or whatever else. If one examines this without hurrying to believe immediately that this is true, one will see which is the Citta creating its own fantasy and which is the truth. But the best way is to turn round and examine oneself, and then nothing doubtful or questionable will happen. The important thing in practising for the proper development of one's Citta in the initial stages of practise is to keep the Citta to oneself and not to let it go out externally, for if one does, various Nimittas [*] may arise to the Citta and one will not be able to follow them and know what they are up to and this can lead one to lose one's footing. But when one has become skilled at practice there are no problems. [*] An image produced in mind, usually visual or audible. It is generally produced by one's own mind and appears to be quite real -- like a dream image. Q2 M1: If one attains Upacara Samadhi and something happens, how should one correct it? A: One should go and report to one's teacher and let him know all about it. In this instance I do not wish to give any answer because it will not be of any value, so I will pass on to the next question. Q3 W2: In this country there are books about Dukkha, Anicca, and Anatta. When one has learned too much of these things, finally one tends not to understand what is what. A: In learning and knowing things that are much too high, knowledge may reach the level of space, which is possible and then one does not understand what is what, because it is too subtle. Taking note and learning is different from the truth of the thing. We know by means of taking note and learning whereas the Noble Disciples (Ariya Puggala) know by means of truth, and so they can abandon Anicca, Dukkha and Anatta and go free from Dukkha in such a way that they come to the end of attachment as illustrated in the following story: -- Once a mother and her child went to catch fish, and both of them were groping in the mud looking for fish when the child unknowingly grasped a snake and raised it up to show his mother. His mother knew the danger but her mindfulness was equal to the situation and she said to the child, "That's a fine fish, keep hold of it tightly and don't let go of it, and I will come and help you." So the child held the neck of the snake tightly and as soon as his mother reached him she hit the snake and killed it. Then she told her child: "That was not a fish but a poisonous snake, but if I had told you before, you may have been afraid and let it go and it would have turned and bitten you, so I had to use this method." This story is an allegory for people who practise Dhamma. In other words, if one reads a lot then one will begin to go from Atta to Anatta to not grasping or believing anything until one has no principles to take hold of. One must hold on and use Atta while one is practising Dhamma in successively higher levels in the same way as one takes hold of a ladder and goes up step by step. Having passed any one step one does not hold on to that rung and try to carry it with one. Thus one goes up until one reaches the room at the top where one wants to go. Then one leaves the ladder behind without trying to hold on to it. So one goes into the room and rests and relaxes happily. This is the way with Anicca, Dukkha and Anatta, for finally one discards them, but one cannot discard them before this because one must depend on them to go up step by step, discarding each previous step until one is able to discard the lot, holding nothing. Q4 W7: Where is the best place to send letters to Tan Acharn? A: Send them to Songserm Service, 89 Phosri Road, Udorn Thani, Thailand. They will bring them out quickly because they are used to receiving mail for the Wat. * * * Discussion in the Morning Friday, 21st June 1974 In the morning after eating food. Q1 W1: At 4.00 a.m. this morning I was at home and heard the sound of Tan Acharn talking but I did not know what was said. I got up and had a look round but did not see anyone. Later I thought of questioning him, then I sat looking in my mirror but did not see myself and I received a feeling as if Tan Acharn answered me that, "You should not think about this, then things will be right by themselves." Then when I was sitting in the train I thought of a question that I wanted to ask and just now K.Y. Sermsri translated the words of Tan Acharn for me to hear -- I feel that Tan Acharn has answered me very fast. (She burst into tears.) A: Tears come when various things happen such as when smoke gets in one's eyes, when one is very happy or very sad, but the important thing is the intention. Q2 W1: Last evening to begin with Tan Acharn gave a talk putting his heart into it and I felt the earnestness of it very much and I was very glad that I had learned something important and I determined to accept the practice. After that Tan Acharn told some funny stories to reduce the tension and I gradually felt less tense. Then I felt that Tan Acharn was telling those funny stories to warn me and finally I felt happy that Tan Acharn was interested and was carefully helping my Citta. A: (Tan Acharn remained silent and made no comment. But he said to K.Y. Sermari afterwards that he had in fact intended to do as the questioner said.) Q3 W2: I have done Anapanasati knowing the outgoing breath and knowing the incoming breath and I have found that my Citta cannot get calm. It feels as if it was about to enter a door but it does not enter. A: If you follow the breath going in and out, this is the kind of result that is produced. One should "define" the breath at that point where it is felt most clearly and at one place one should feel that the breath is entering or leaving, passing by that one point. If you do it in this way you will not feel as if you are going in and out of a door as you said. Q4 W3: My Citta is the same as that of the first questioner in that I am anxious and concerned for other people. It is difficult to take hold of my Citta and make it stay in one place so as to get calm. How should I correct it? A: When the Citta goes out to other places and when the owner knows that this is the case, it stops. Then the Citta is set up anew once again to do the practice. As soon as it goes out again one knows and it stops and one calls it back in to do the work that one has set it to do. Make it return often and it will tend to remain and one can attain calm. * * * * * * * *

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