ELEVENTH MEETING
Thursday Evening, 20th June, 1974
A Dhamma Explanation
Tan Acharn said: When people have liked or loved anything in their
hearts and when talk of that thing occurs it makes them happy and
enthusiastic. For example, when a sportsman speaks about sport he can
go on endlessly, even forgetting to take a meal or drink anything, for
he is sustained by the fun he is having.
People who practise Dhamma also do this, for they speak about Dhamma
and in particular about the field of practice, and when they speak
about meditation (Citta Bhavana) they are likely to become more and
more engrossed until they forget time. The hours pass and they never
notice it when they talk together about Dhamma and practice and
however many are present it is a fascinating story.
The Teacher trains and teaches them about the attainment of Samadhi,
the Samapattis (Jhana), mindfulness and wisdom. They talk about
"getting rid of" -- getting rid of the Kilesas of various kinds by
means of the power of mindfulness, wisdom, faith and effort step by
step, and this makes them even more engrossed in following what he
says.
Even if the "owner" has not yet been able to experience Dhamma in any
of the ways that his Teacher has, it still makes him cheerful and
joyful in the Dhamma which the Teacher has practised, known and seen
and come to tell them in a manner that is fascinating, so that they
never feel that they have had too much of it.
The Lord said that "The flavour of Dhamma is superior to all other
flavours;" of all flavours none tastes better than Dhamma. If the
taste of Dhamma were not so supremely excellent, the "Three Worlds"
would be unlikely to have paid homage to and worshipped the Dhamma;
and then the Dhamma would not have been considered as supreme, it
would not be suitable as a refuge (Sarana), as something to hold on
to, as something certain, nor as something in which all good and
honest people can have implicit faith.
The extent to which all Buddhists pay homage to and have faith in the
Dhamma is because the Dhamma is a thing of excellence as befits the
renown and prestige of Dhamma that spreads out from each of the
Buddhas and the Savaka Sangha of each of the "World Teachers"
(Buddhas) respectively, until it came down to us. That it came down to
us was entirely due to those who, after having partaken of the "taste
of Dhamma" with their hearts, then brought out this Dhamma which they
had known, seen and experienced and taught it to the world right up to
the present time.
They did not guess or suppose that the taste of Dhamma was superior to
all other tastes, for they knew the taste of Dhamma as well as seeing
absolutely clearly into all aspects of Dhamma. Then they brought out
that knowledge, that "revelation," and proclaimed and taught the World
in accordance with the fundamental truths which they had known and
seen by taking their own knowing and seeing as evidence in proclaiming
Dhamma and teaching the World.
When we say: "Dhammam Saranam Gacchami," (I take refuge in Dhamma),
how much depth or profundity has it? It is not a superficial Dhamma
which one can know and see on the surface and teach the world in a
superficial way. For the Lord knew the truth and taught the truth of
Dhamma to the world at all levels. Therefore those who listen should
listen with interest and practise with sincerity. The result which
they get from Dhamma will be Dhamma that reaches the heart stage by
stage, going right up until the various kinds of Kilesas are removed.
In fact they can all be removed entirely to the satisfaction of one's
heart, so that one knows this clearly in one's own heart, as it says
in the Dhamma teaching: "Sanditthiko" -- knowing for oneself and
seeing for oneself. Even if the Lord Buddha was sitting in front of
one one would not then waste time asking any questions, because the
truth is the same truth and the same experience.
But in the practice of Dhamma amongst all those who are the highest
sages, they are very careful, because Dhamma is not like the "world."
If Dhamma were like the world it would not be called Dhamma because it
would be the same thing as saying "the world" and just this one word
would be enough, and it would be all mixed in with the way of the
world. But there is this word because Dhamma and the "world" are not
the same and even though they are both in the world together, they are
not one and the same thing. It is only that they are here interfused
with each other, but not the same thing, for they just dwell together,
like all of us here are just dwelling together at present -- Bhikkhus
and lay-people dwelling together, but not one and the same, men and
women dwelling together, but not one and the same, children and adults
dwelling together, but not one and the same. Thus, although they are
living together they are separate individuals, each one merely living
there. It is like this with Dhamma and the world. The highest Sages
practised until they knew by experience clearly in their own hearts,
and they then led the religion steadily and consistently without
acting in gross or unseemly ways in the eyes and ears of those who had
faith in Buddhism. This refers to the Lord Buddha and the Savaka
Arahants who brought Buddhism to us for us to see and admire in the
most beautiful and seemly way. They did not bring it in a manner that
would surprise and disturb the listener.
Here, I will tell you an illustrative story for you who are practising
Dhamma. For it may be with some of you that this Dhamma "overflows"
and when there is occasion you let it out, or show it off, without any
shame or feeling of being open to criticism. This happens because of a
desire to become famous or distinguished -- which is nothing but the
work of the Kilesas pushing it out. Therefore I will tell you this
story of the wise men who followed the way of the Buddha -- a moral
lesson.
The Venerable Assaji had penetrated (Dhamma) and become an Arahant
with all the five Pancavaggi who were the first five Savakas of the
Lord Buddha. The Ven. Annakondanna was the first and Ven. Upatissa,
who became the Ven. Sariputta, the highest of the Savakas placed
symbolically on the right hand side of the Lord Buddha, had at this
time not yet become one of the Savakas and he was ordained in the
institution of wandering religious mendicants (Paribbajaka) and
practising according to the customs of such people at that time. When
he saw Ven. Assaji who was very beautiful and seemly in all his
actions and manners -- walking forward, withdrawing backwards, looking
to the right and left, with a very composed deportment which instilled
great respect and confidence, he followed stealthily behind him. As
soon as they were out of the village he went up and asked him where he
lived and about his Uppajjhaya and Acariya. He replied only briefly to
the question about what Dhamma the Teacher (the Buddha) or his Acariya
taught, saying "I have no very great knowledge so I will just speak of
it in brief for you to hear. 'Ye Dhamma Hetupabhava...etc.' -- 'All
Dhammas arise from a cause; when they die away the cause must die away
first.' The Lord Buddha taught like this. That is all."
Then Sariputta the Paribbajaka penetrated through and immediately
became Sotapanna. As for Assaji who was the teacher, he did not then
say of himself that he was one of the Arahants, in fact he did not say
anything at all. But Ven. Sariputta may have been able to know his
attainment in Dhamma when he heard the Dhamma in brief which Ven.
Assaji taught him, because in the stage of Sotapatti Magga and
Sotapatti Phala it is possible to penetrate deeply and to know the
truth of someone who has a level of attainment higher than oneself.
Therefore Ven. Assaji was able to teach him a wonderful kind of Dhamma
which he had never heard before, so that he penetrated Dhamma.
But it seemed from the texts that Ven. Sariputta never heard Ven.
Assaji say that he was an Arahant, because Ven. Assaji did not make
any outward show of being an Arahant. This is the first example to
illustrate what was previously said.
The second story concerns Mr. Kamanit [*] who met the Lord Buddha in
the house of a potter. When the Lord asked him where he was going he
said he was going to see the Buddha. The Lord asked "Where are you
going so as to see the Buddha"? and he replied "I am going a long way
for the Lord is sure to be at Savatthi." But the Lord did not say that
he was the Lord Buddha. How profound was the subtlety of the wisest
sage in not telling him, for the Lord knew all the ways of cause and
effect and that to tell him would have led to some form of loss. When
he had weighed up the situation he saw that it was of greater value
not to tell, so he left without saying anything about his being the
Lord Buddha, even though Mr. Kamanit was still searching for the Lord.
[*] This story comes from a book which is used in Thailand as a
school study book. It was originally translated into Thai
from English, and the English version was in turn translated
from German having been written by Karl Adolph Gjellerup, a
Danish Nobel prize writer. The original book was titled "Der
Pilger Kamanita" and it is based on the life of the Lord
Buddha, His Dhamma and stories from various Suttas. (For
this information I am indebted to Mr. Chuan Sornsongkram of
the Chuan Printing Press. Ven. Pannavaddho).
As soon as the dawn came he left the Lord Buddha and shortly met Ven.
Sariputta and Ven. Moggallana who were walking along the road towards
him, going to see the Lord Buddha in the pottery and they questioned
Mr. Kamanit who said that he was going to see the Buddha. Both of the
Savakas asked him whether when he came through that place he had met
anyone there. He said that he met a Samana in the pottery and he was
one whose behaviour and manners made one respect and trust him very
much.
"He was zealously practising all last night and he taught Dhamma
(Desana) in a melodious, beautiful voice and what he said went to the
heart and was very impressive. But I am still not satisfied and want
to go and meet the Lord Buddha so I have come from there."
Ven. Sariputta and Ven. Moggallana did not say anything to let him
know that the person he had met was the Lord Buddha. Why did they say
nothing? Because this is the way of the sages, for if anyone was to
say anything it was for the Lord Buddha to say it first. For whatever
the need was to let Mr. Kamanit stay for some time and then go on and
meet Sariputta and Moggallana on the road, they only spoke together
when his back was turned, saying: "Eh! That fellow has no idea that he
has already met the Buddha, but the Lord did not say anything to him,
and in short, because of that we cannot say anything also." This is
how the Sages immediately understand each other and their knowledge
and understanding does not lead to disagreement, unlike people who
have all the Kilesas, who only want to "sell themselves" and incite
the Kilesas making them increasingly pile up in the Citta instead of
making the effort to get rid of them. In the practice of Dhamma in the
sphere of Buddhism, this sort of thing tends to happen all the time.
Therefore I have anxious thoughts, though in truth I should be more
anxious for myself than for others. But I cannot help being anxious
for all our companions including Upasakas and Upasikas and all others
who have Saddha in a gradually widening circle.
Suppose in a particular case something happens that is improper and
disturbing in a way for one who wants to be a learned sage following
the path of the Lord Buddha, it is likely to cause deterioration and
harm to himself and to Buddhism. Those who practise Dhamma should
therefore always be self-controlled and careful to maintain virtue,
because Dhamma is different from the world.
In the practice of Dhamma, even though someone truly aims for Magga,
Phala, and Nibbana until he is able to penetrate to the desired goal
of "Arahatta Phala," such a person would not say that he knew that he
had attained Enlightenment. Why? Because how could the words "I have
attained Enlightenment" be of any use as a means of helping the
listener? One cannot see how; but they could be a basis for vainly
boosting one's own state in accordance with what the world praises --
that is about all. The Lord therefore did not do this, but he used the
method of giving advice over and over again by teaching the way of
causes and the way of results which it was appropriate to teach in a
manner that was more or less strong or gentle accordingly. He
therefore taught according to the level of attainment of whoever came
to be trained, and depending on the time, place, and people and their
status and state, he taught and trained them in ways that were
suitable. He taught according to the ways of cause and effect, but he
did not say that he was accomplished in Dhamma up to such and such a
level for this would be an unseemly thing to do. The Lord was not
addicted to speaking because it is not in harmony or appropriate to
the status of a sage.
In the time of the Buddha the Bhikkhus had great confidence in each
other, and they were very careful about this. Even in the present
time, if there is someone who has truly followed the way of the Lord
Buddha, one should understand that he will not deviate from this
track. This is however not so with those present day "Sages" of whom
there are a large number, and one can count the one who is speaking as
one of them also, that are always overflowing and waiting to go
"overboard." If this is the case, it shows that the excess which is
spilling over the "edge" of the Citta is not Dhamma. If there is true
knowing and seeing let it just resound within one's own heart -- do
not let it go out externally where it can create disturbance. A sharp
blade should be kept in its sheath where it will be safe. To throw it
about the place, whatever word or blade or weapon it is, is dangerous
both to oneself and others. If one puts it away properly it is not
dangerous, in fact one can get nothing but value from it. When someone
advertises boastfully saying, "I have attained Sotapanna, Sakadagami,
Anagami, or Arahant," there is no reason why anyone who hears this
should be glad, in fact it may change their faith in him, making it
gradually diminish and they then see the Kilesas of that person quite
clearly and they just feel wearied and fed up and that there is
nothing else worth respecting in that person.
Therefore, all those who practise, if they are people who aim truly
for Dhamma, must aim for reason rather than announcing Dhamma of this
kind outwardly, which is not the way of the Lord Buddha -- but the way
of a rotten fish which announces itself so that flies swarm around.
Announcing and selling rotten fish to the flies is the way of rotten
fish. When we hear or smell them they irritate our ears and nose and
the irritation seeps into the heart. Why is it so irritating as this,
for if the Dhamma is a true Dhamma, when these things go into the
Citta they make one feel irritated and wearied of it all?
Various people variously aim for gain and Dhamma (Attha Dhamma) of the
higher levels. But when any of them announced things of such a kind
that one cannot find any reason in them it means that they are
repressed in their hearts -- or they have a hunger in their hearts. So
when they say these things they are not good to hear. But even though
the person himself may not be aware of his state, if other people
admonish and warn him he should listen. If he is also a person who has
been aiming for gain and Dhamma he should become aware of himself and
be more restrained and careful of himself in the future. Do not turn
yourself into a rotten fish within Buddhism, for this Dhamma is sweet
smelling and it has led people to respect and pay homage (Puja) to it
throughout the world for a long time.
Today I will just explain this far to begin with. Ven. Panna will
translate for you. If I speak a lot he will forget much of what I have
said already.
(After translating into English there was still some time to spare to
Tan Acharn spoke further as follows:)
A story of the present time, Professor Ouay (Dr. Ouay Ketusingh). I
wonder if you have heard this one? It has been repeated so much that
it has now become something of a legend.
There is a Bhikkhu of the present time and not very long ago while
Ven. Acariya Mun was alive, who went together with some Bhikkhus to
practise and train themselves in the way of Kammatthana Dhamma to a
hill, but there is no need to say in which province they went to do
their meditation. While doing their meditation at about midnight, this
Bhikkhu thought that he had penetrated Dhamma and become Arahant, but
what he was investigating in his meditation is not known. His hand
felt in his handbag and he brought out his snuff pipe which he blew as
a whistle -- Peep! The other two Bhikkhus who were with him on this
hill quickly ran to find him for they did not know what danger he was
in. They never thought that if he had penetrated Dhamma he would blow
a whistle, so they thought there was some danger.
"Hey, what's the matter?"
"Nothing is the matter but I have just attained."
"Heck! You've attained what?"
"I've attained Arahantship!"
The two Bhikkhus said nothing -- they probably did not have the heart
to. This thing about reaching Arahantship may be alright but what was
more important than that was..."O-ho! Having attained Arahantship you
blow a whistle; what level is this?" This was their doubt but they did
not say anything because having thought about it in various ways they
returned tired of it.
Later on, one night and once again about midnight, the two Bhikkhus
heard the whistle blow again. They thought, "He's probably attained to
nobody knows what level now!" But they could not not go and see him
because the three of them were living together in case of real danger
coming to them, so it was their duty to help each other. So the two of
them came back to look for the Bhikkhu who blew the whistle and they
asked him:
"You blew the whistle again this time, so what further level have you
attained? Have you reached the level of madness, for whether Arahant
or whatever else it's a real nuisance." This time he announced: "The
other night I thought wrongly I had attained so I blew the whistle to
call you and tell you for I was very glad. But then tonight I examined
and found that I had not attained so I had to blow the whistle so as
to let you know that in truth I had not attained." The two Bhikkhus
saw the funny side of it and felt sorry about the madness of this
"whistling Arahant." They told other Bhikkhus until it became a
well-known story.
There is another story about this Bhikkhu, for one day he was sitting
in meditation and saw a disc of light like the sun as big as a coconut
falling down in front of him. His Citta had attained Samadhi and saw
light, and it went out following it. The light moved away so he got up
from where he was sitting and followed it without knowing what he was
doing. The light went up a tree and he went up following it also. The
light then floated up into the sky and disappeared. Then his awareness
returned and he realised that he was up a tree and he wept until other
Bhikkhus came running to see and to help him to get down. Then they
asked him all about it and they heard that Samadhi had led him to
float up into this tree.
More than two years ago, a Samanera told me a story when I was staying
in a certain Wat. This Samanera came up to see me at the same time as
another Bhikkhu, and he (the Samanera) told about knowing various
things. [*] I listened right through until he had finished and then I
said: -- Samanera, you must be careful; you will grasp at shadows or
go up a tree following a light." I did not know what this Samanera had
been like in the past, but later on someone told me that this Samanera
had already led some Bhikkhus to follow a light. The light led him
into the forest and the Samanera ran after it and called the Bhikkhus
to come and help to catch this light and he got those Bhikkhus who did
not know about this to follow him and search for this light. There was
a lot of noise and commotion until a Bhikkhu who was there and knew
about him came to see and stopped it and dispersed them.
[*] This means "Knowing by psychic means."
Truly speaking, this type of Citta is not found in many people; in
fact only about five percent are like this. If they are under the
right teacher, people of this sort are good and they have adventurous
natures. I have also been of this kind, but I did not send the Citta
out externally for I knew what it was up to -- light shooting up as
though flying up into the sky, so strong it seemed that if one should
die at that time there would have been nothing left to cremate. [*] I
knew about it then and withdrew the Citta to its original base. As
soon as the Citta saw this it immediately died away. The "owner" must
go through many mad things like this, then he will know about various
things concerning those who practise, enough for his needs and he can
correct people without going off the path or flying up into the sky --
even without wings!
[*] This is just an exclamation and must not be taken literally.
At one time I was sitting doing meditation in a shelter in a village,
in a place where there was a very fierce "Pob" [*] which could even
possess a Bhikkhu. I was doing meditation in the forest at 4.00
o'clock in the morning, and saw a person coming whom the villagers had
said was the "Pob." His eyes were shifty and restless and he came in
to where I was resting and then walked off to another village. While
doing meditation I did not know where I was and as soon as the ghost
came and met me while I was sitting in Samadhi meditation I ducked and
then my body fell down with a thump. When I became aware of myself I
was very amused for I knew that the Citta had done this to me, but I
did not tell anyone about it.
[*] A kind of ghost which enters people and lives on the
vitality of the person so that the person grows weak and
eventually dies -- said to be common in Thailand.
Whatever one sees and feels one must examine with wisdom to find out
for sure what it is and one must find the way to cure it. If anything
comes one's way and one assumes that it is absolutely real and true,
one will deludedly go wrong. One must know for oneself and examine
oneself constantly. If one does not know one cannot teach others.
The characteristics of some Cittas are very strange and if they do not
have a teacher they will be lost. But if they do have a teacher to
give them careful advice, such people can quickly make valuable gains
which they can use to advantage. But they must train in mindfulness
and wisdom so as to know what the Citta is up to, then it will not be
able to get lost and will be of widespread value -- more than one
would imagine.
The Citta and the objects (Arammana) of the Citta are quite bizarre
and it is difficult to describe what truly happens. But in the case of
those who have similar characteristics, who also practise Dhamma and
who have had similar experiences, they can speak together and
understand each other. This is like people who learn a technical
subject and can speak together about it, whereas others cannot
understand.
* * *
Questions and Answers
Q1 W1:
In England there are no good Acariyas living here so what should we do
about it?
A:
If there is no Acariya available one must practise Samadhi on one's
own and investigate (examine) so as to keep up with it -- and one must
do it a lot. If the Citta which has tendencies of wanting to know
about external things that happen while doing Samadhi, is released and
allowed to go out externally to oneself -- in other words going out to
know and see various things, one may think that one has gained the
"Deva ear" (Clairaudience), the "Deva eye" (Clairvoyance), or whatever
else. If one examines this without hurrying to believe immediately
that this is true, one will see which is the Citta creating its own
fantasy and which is the truth. But the best way is to turn round and
examine oneself, and then nothing doubtful or questionable will
happen. The important thing in practising for the proper development
of one's Citta in the initial stages of practise is to keep the Citta
to oneself and not to let it go out externally, for if one does,
various Nimittas [*] may arise to the Citta and one will not be able
to follow them and know what they are up to and this can lead one to
lose one's footing. But when one has become skilled at practice there
are no problems.
[*] An image produced in mind, usually visual or audible. It is
generally produced by one's own mind and appears to be quite
real -- like a dream image.
Q2 M1:
If one attains Upacara Samadhi and something happens, how should one
correct it?
A:
One should go and report to one's teacher and let him know all about
it. In this instance I do not wish to give any answer because it will
not be of any value, so I will pass on to the next question.
Q3 W2:
In this country there are books about Dukkha, Anicca, and Anatta. When
one has learned too much of these things, finally one tends not to
understand what is what.
A:
In learning and knowing things that are much too high, knowledge may
reach the level of space, which is possible and then one does not
understand what is what, because it is too subtle. Taking note and
learning is different from the truth of the thing. We know by means of
taking note and learning whereas the Noble Disciples (Ariya Puggala)
know by means of truth, and so they can abandon Anicca, Dukkha and
Anatta and go free from Dukkha in such a way that they come to the end
of attachment as illustrated in the following story: -- Once a mother
and her child went to catch fish, and both of them were groping in the
mud looking for fish when the child unknowingly grasped a snake and
raised it up to show his mother. His mother knew the danger but her
mindfulness was equal to the situation and she said to the child,
"That's a fine fish, keep hold of it tightly and don't let go of it,
and I will come and help you." So the child held the neck of the snake
tightly and as soon as his mother reached him she hit the snake and
killed it. Then she told her child: "That was not a fish but a
poisonous snake, but if I had told you before, you may have been
afraid and let it go and it would have turned and bitten you, so I had
to use this method."
This story is an allegory for people who practise Dhamma. In other
words, if one reads a lot then one will begin to go from Atta to
Anatta to not grasping or believing anything until one has no
principles to take hold of. One must hold on and use Atta while one is
practising Dhamma in successively higher levels in the same way as one
takes hold of a ladder and goes up step by step. Having passed any one
step one does not hold on to that rung and try to carry it with one.
Thus one goes up until one reaches the room at the top where one wants
to go. Then one leaves the ladder behind without trying to hold on to
it. So one goes into the room and rests and relaxes happily. This is
the way with Anicca, Dukkha and Anatta, for finally one discards them,
but one cannot discard them before this because one must depend on
them to go up step by step, discarding each previous step until one is
able to discard the lot, holding nothing.
Q4 W7:
Where is the best place to send letters to Tan Acharn?
A:
Send them to Songserm Service, 89 Phosri Road, Udorn Thani, Thailand.
They will bring them out quickly because they are used to receiving
mail for the Wat.
* * *
Discussion in the Morning
Friday, 21st June 1974
In the morning after eating food.
Q1 W1:
At 4.00 a.m. this morning I was at home and heard the sound of Tan
Acharn talking but I did not know what was said. I got up and had a
look round but did not see anyone. Later I thought of questioning him,
then I sat looking in my mirror but did not see myself and I received
a feeling as if Tan Acharn answered me that, "You should not think
about this, then things will be right by themselves." Then when I was
sitting in the train I thought of a question that I wanted to ask and
just now K.Y. Sermsri translated the words of Tan Acharn for me to
hear -- I feel that Tan Acharn has answered me very fast. (She burst
into tears.)
A:
Tears come when various things happen such as when smoke gets in one's
eyes, when one is very happy or very sad, but the important thing is
the intention.
Q2 W1:
Last evening to begin with Tan Acharn gave a talk putting his heart
into it and I felt the earnestness of it very much and I was very glad
that I had learned something important and I determined to accept the
practice. After that Tan Acharn told some funny stories to reduce the
tension and I gradually felt less tense. Then I felt that Tan Acharn
was telling those funny stories to warn me and finally I felt happy
that Tan Acharn was interested and was carefully helping my Citta.
A:
(Tan Acharn remained silent and made no comment. But he said to K.Y.
Sermari afterwards that he had in fact intended to do as the
questioner said.)
Q3 W2:
I have done Anapanasati knowing the outgoing breath and knowing the
incoming breath and I have found that my Citta cannot get calm. It
feels as if it was about to enter a door but it does not enter.
A:
If you follow the breath going in and out, this is the kind of result
that is produced. One should "define" the breath at that point where
it is felt most clearly and at one place one should feel that the
breath is entering or leaving, passing by that one point. If you do it
in this way you will not feel as if you are going in and out of a door
as you said.
Q4 W3:
My Citta is the same as that of the first questioner in that I am
anxious and concerned for other people. It is difficult to take hold
of my Citta and make it stay in one place so as to get calm. How
should I correct it?
A:
When the Citta goes out to other places and when the owner knows that
this is the case, it stops. Then the Citta is set up anew once again
to do the practice. As soon as it goes out again one knows and it
stops and one calls it back in to do the work that one has set it to
do. Make it return often and it will tend to remain and one can attain
calm.
* * * * * * * *
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