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Newsgroups: alt.politics.libertarian,talk.politics.guns,alt.activism,alt.conspiracy
Subject: Re: ATF-WACO Apologist Blown Away --- NOT BY THIS GUY!
From: sgriff@apci.net
Date: Fri, 11 Oct 1996 16:08:54 -0700
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author@mainelink.net wrote:
>
> Here's a guy quoting Hitler, which is odd. The gun law
> enacted during Hitler's regime did *not* provice for
> gun registration or deny German citizens the right to
> have guns.
> Consequently, when this guy quotes Hitler as saying:
>
> sgriff@apci.net wrote:
> >kevin Stall wrote:
>
> (lots snipped -- here;s the bit I'm referring to:
>
> >--
> >The most foolish mistake we could possibly make
> >would be to allow the subjected to carry arms.
> >History shows that all conquerors who have allowed
> >their subjected peoples to carry arms have prepared
> >their own fall.
> > Adolph Hitler.
>
> Unless Hitler said this in private, to you, it's
> reasonable to expect you can give the time/place
> he made this statement, and your source for this
> allegation.
> While I've seen nothing by Hitler on gun control,
> we all know he utilized The Big Lie...and it's
> apparent that his students survive in this forum.
>
> Jimand here is what you seek:
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From: Gail Thaler
Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc,talk.politics.guns,alt.politics.clinton
Subject: Re: Why Sarah Brady continues to lose support!
Date: 20 Sep 1996 13:53:13 GMT
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References: <511msp$9a2@bermuda.io.com> <3234ec8c.25133179@netnews.worldnet.att.net> <517kvv$ps9@pentagon.io.com> <51apn2$8ue@news1.halcyon.com> <51cts2$3rj@paperboy.ids.net> <51flsa$ab5@news.toolcity.net> <323C2952.6E6E@computek.net> <323CCE0D.2760@apci.net> <51jqe9$pd8@news0-alterdial.uu.net> <51m96k$mq4@news0-alterdial.uu.net> <51os2n$q2u@news0-alterdial.uu.net> <51q1b0$qn5@Mercury.mcs.com> <324148eb.131869418@firstnethou.com>
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Xref: queeg.apci.net talk.politics.misc:55353 talk.politics.guns:35280 alt.politics.clinton:39208
landerr@inil.com (Dick Lander) wrote:
>In article <324148eb.131869418@firstnethou.com>, dcd@firstnethou.com (Dan
>Day) wrote:
>
>> On 18 Sep 1996 18:41:20 -0500, synergy@MCS.COM (synergy) wrote:
>> >>>> >> >The most foolish mistake we could possibly make
>> >>>> >> >would be to allow the subjected to carry arms.
>> >>>> >> >History shows that all conquerors who have allowed
>> >>>> >> >their subjected peoples to carry arms have prepared
>> >>>> >> >their own fall.
>> >>>> >> > Adolph Hitler, Edict of March 18, 1938
>> >>>>
>> >>>> On March 18, 1938, Hilter addressed the Reichstag denying that he
>> >>>> invaded Austria and promoting the sham elections there. As he
>> >>>> did not "conquer" or "subjegate" Austria, according to him, it
>> >>>> would be counterproductive to use such language. He would only
>> >>>> be drawing attention to the world that he had done so.
>>
>> ...only if this were a *public* speech. If it were private correspondence,
>> he would be free to say what he really thought, without the constraints
>> of political necessity.
>>
>>
>> >As much as I am opposed to fascist schemes such as gun control laws,
>> >I will not condone the use of bogus quotes to further pro-2nd Amenement
>> >causes. There is no evidence to suggest that the alleged Hitler
>> >quote above is anything but a fraud or a hoax.
>>
>> Sorry, this one's not a "fraud or hoax" (although the date does appear to be
>> wrong). Perhaps you're thinking of the "1935 will go down in
>history..." Hitler
>> "quote", which *is* almost certainly bogus.
>>
>> Ken Barnes maintains the pro-gun quotes archive, and takes pains to
>verify them
>> by tracing them back to original sources, whenever possible. He writes:
>>
>> #### Begin quote of Ken Barnes
>>
>> > "The most foolish mistake we could possibly make would be to allow the
>> > subject races to possess arms. History shows that all conquerors who have
>> > allowed their subject races to carry arms have prepared their own downfall
>> > by so doing. Indeed, I would go so far as to say that the underdog is a
>> > sine qua non ["something essential" lit. "without which not"] for the
>> > overthrow of any sovereignty. So let's not have any native militia or
>> > police."
>> > -- Hitler's Secret Conversations - 1941-1944
>> > Farrar, Straus and Young - 1953
>> > Pg. 345
>>
>> Surprisingly, this quote isn't a hoax. (See below)
>>
>> "Der groBte Unsinn, den man in den besetzen Ostgebieten machen
>> konne, sei der, den unterworfenen Volkern Waffen zu geben. Die
>> Geschicte lehre, daB alle Herrenvolker untergegangen seien, nachdem
>> sie den von ihnen unterworfenen Volkern Waffen bewilligt hatten.
>> Ja, man konne geradezu sagen, daB die Auslieferung von Waffen
>> an die unterworfenen Volker eine 'conditio sine qua non' fur den
>> Untergang der Herrenvolker sei."
>> [The most foolish mistake we could possibly make would be to permit
>> the conquered Eastern peoples to have arms. History teaches that all
>> conquerors who have allowed their subject races to carry arms have
>> prepared their own downfall by doing so.
>> Yes, I would go so far as to say that native militias or police
>> are a _sine qua non_ condition for the overthrow of any conqueror
>> race by the underdog.]
>> --Adolf Hitler (1889-1945), April 11, 1942, quoted in _Hitlers
>> Tischegesprache Im Fuhrerhauptquartier 1941-1942,_[Hitler's Table-
>> Talk at the Fuhrer's Headquarters 1941-1942], Dr. Henry Picker, ed.
>> (Athenaum-Verlag, Bonn, 1951) <> a slightly different (and, I've been told, less accurate) English
>> translation in the book_Hitler's Secret Conversations_(Farrar, Straus
>> and Young, 1953). The original source is notes taken by Hitler
>> associate Martin Bormann, a document called _Bormann-Vermerke._
>> NOTE: The "B"s used in the quote are substituted for the character
>> representing the "ss" sound in the Gothic alphabet, and the usual
>> diacritical marks are omitted.>>
>>
>> ### End quote of Ken Barnes
>
>Unless you guys have something substantive in rebuttal, this looks pretty
>authoritative to me...
>--
If you want to believe "Hitler's Secret Conversations" over
The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich, that's your perogative.
>Richard W. (Dick) Lander; sportsman,
>Macintosh devotee, proponent of personal liberty.
>* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
>"DOS computers are by far the most popular, with about 70 million machines in use worldwide. Macintosh fans, on the other hand, may=
note that cockroaches are far more numerous than humans, and that
>numbers alone do not denote a higher life form." (New York Times)
>
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