From:    Charles Nemo
To:      Diane Vera
Subject: Satanism

You recently asked Jeff the Riffer in the Pagan echo whether it is necessary
to be an asshole in order to be a Satanist.  (I am *NOT* Mr. Riffer, nor am I
you!)  You apparently were offended by his statement that he was there to
cause as much chaos as possible and/or by the fact that he posted some Slayer
lyrics.  You solicited my opinion on the matter.

My initial reaction was that in many instances one would have to be an asshole
to be a Satanist--at least where the sole motivation was childish rebellion.
Having though about the subject a bit more, I can see virtually no
circumstances where society might regard a Satanist favorably.  Even the most
innocuous form of Satanist--one who acts purely from self-interest without any
trace of the theoretical violence often attributed to Satanists by rabid
fundies--would be perceived as selfish by society and therefore ipso facto an
asshole!  Society's attitude toward less congenial Satanists goes without
saying....

Charles Manson is an example of a so-called Satanist who arouses the most
violent imaginable loathing in many people.  Why?  Here is a short (5'6"),
illiterate (3rd grade education), unkempt and possibly mentally ill man who
influenced a motley band of at most 30-40 people. Of course he is alleged to
have masterminded the killing of several people, but that happens all the time
without the attendant public horror.  Are people envious of his demonstrated
sexual magnetism? Perhaps.  More likely is that people realize the truth of
his statements that society has "projected" its evil onto him.  People
understand (at least subconsciously) the corruption of a nation that
lets countless homeless families live in the most appalling degradation
while spending billions on armaments, pet food and other foolish
profligacies.  They know in their hearts that their children indeed
will be "coming right at them." People may not admit these things,
but they know it in their hearts. Fundamentalism is a perfect vehicle
for projection, since it labels all who are different or disagree as
heretical or, even worse, "Satanic".

Actually, a hardcore Satanist might not even call himself or herself such,
since it is too easy to fall into the xtian mindset of what constitutes
Satanism, thereby limiting the potential for one's self- development.
Labeling also makes one an easier target for would-be inquisitors.  It is even
possible that a strong (and probably young) individualist might not even
realize that he/she is a"Satanist" at heart....

From:    Charles Nemo
To:      Diane Vera                               Msg #111, 12-Mar-91  05:22pm
Subject: Re: The "Darker Side"

Definitions of "hardcore Satanist", "a 'Satanist' at heart" and circumstances
necessary for breakoff of a relationship are highly subjective and probably
not worth discussing.  Your point about the motivation of serial killers not
being a profound mystery in view of American glorification of violence is
valid in that it explains the existence of such people.  What's surprising is
that there are not thousands of such people instead of only dozens or
hundreds.  There many in fact BE thousands in the formative stages--as
children or as adults who have had enough "crap" but not yet "matured".  Study
of the phenomenon is important, therefore, both to identify difficult people
and help them, as well as to try to change conditions that cause the problem.
In short, there may be a veritable tidal wave of epic societal distortions
approaching, and an early warning system might be worthwhile.  There are
several excellent books on the subject if you're interested....

As one concrete example, I came across survey results in a recent issue of
Industry Week indicating that more than 60% of middle management and
first-line supervisors are fed up with their jobs.  Imagine the impact of
these disgruntled people of the even-more-helpless people they supervise, on
their and their employees families (especially children), etc.  American
industry/religion/politics has failed its people badly, and the catastrophic
consequences of recession/depression/ etc. are only beginning....

From:    Diane Vera
To:      Charles Nemo                             Msg #170, 17-Mar-91  10:54pm
Subject: Re: The "Darker Side"

On March 12, you wrote:
.
			 CN >  Your point about the motivation of serial killers
			 not being a profound mystery in view of American
			 glorification of violence is valid in that it explains the
			 existence of such people.  What's surprising is that there
			 are not thousands of such people instead of only dozens or
			 hundreds.  There many in fact BE thousands in the
			 formative stages--as children or as adults who have had
			 enough "crap" but not yet "matured".   Study of the
			 phenomenon is important, therefore, both to identify
			 difficult people and help them, as well as to try to
			 change conditions that cause the problem.  In short, there
			 may be a veritable tidal wave of epic societal distortions
			 approaching, and an early warning system might be
			 worthwhile.  There are several excellent books on the
			 subject if you're interested....
.
You're right.  STUDY of the phenomenon is important.  If I seemed to
belittle the topic, I was reacting against the popular voyeuristic
FASCINATION with "psycho killers", as in the sale of Jack the Ripper
memorabilia  -  a fascination which may well be part of the problem.
I should mention that "psycho killers" is a topic I'm particularly
sensitive on, since (1) my sister was killed by one, (2) a cousin of
mine might well  *be*  one if he weren't locked away in a mental
institution (he tried to kill his parents once, and he still hears
voices telling him to kill various people), and (3) somebody I once
dated was rumored to be one, I later found out.
.
			 CN >  As one concrete example, I came across survey
			 results in a recent issue of Industry Week indicating that
			 more than 60% of middle management and first-line
			 supervisors are fed up with their jobs.  Imagine the
			 impact of these disgruntled people on the even-more-
			 helpless people they supervise, on their and their
			 employees' families (especially children), etc.
.
Yep.  I can believe it!
.
			 CN >  American industry/religion/politics has failed its
			 people badly, and the catastrophic consequences of
			 recession/depression/ etc. are only beginning....