Hi all--this is a series of threads on supposed "satanic"
crime primarily, but also includes threads and posts on
other Christian Hysteric issues. Sources are MYSTERIA BBS,
and the "bulletin board" (Cult Watch Echo) and MAGICKNET
echoes on CULT MONITOR BBS. This picks up where WIC-SATN.THD
in X-HATE3.ARC pretty much leaves off, being that some of
the threads within may be familiar. Happy perusal! MK-H
Msg#: 2121 *MAGICKNET*
07/00/88 06:47:00 (Read 0 Times)
From: JOHN MCCLIMANS
To: ROWAN MOONSTONE
Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 2113 (RE: HERE WE GO AGAIN. PT. 2)
I agree! I also resent being labled a satanist! I am not a christian heretic!
On the other hand, when Margot Adler was interviewing for Drawing Down the
Moon, She interviewed all of the Church of All Worlds priest/esses and the only
thing that we all agreed on was that if we were not being a threat to society,
then we were not doing our job right. But then we were a sassy bunch. And you
know about weirdos who really believe that THOU ART GOD/DESS
---
* Origin: ThelemaNet - Hail Eris! * (415) 548-0163 (Opus 1:161/93)
Msg#: 2044 *BULLETIN BOARD*
07/08/88 19:14:00 (Read 0 Times)
From: KEN ARBUCKLE
To: PHILLIP HANSFORD
Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 1378 (RE: SATANISM, ET AL)
Dear Sir,
Are you suggesting that Satanism has no Jonestown's to its credit?
ken
--- QuickBBS v2.01
* Origin: Maltese Alien * Carnegie, PA * (412) 279-7011 * FidoNet (1:129/41)
Msg#: 2048 *BULLETIN BOARD*
07/09/88 18:51:00 (Read 0 Times)
From: ROWAN MOONSTONE
To: KEN ARBUCKLE
Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 2044 (RE: SATANISM, ET AL)
I'm afraid it has not been PROVEN that Satanism exists, outside of the
established Church of Satan in S. F. and the Temple of Set, and some pretty
weird , wacked out , drug crazed teen agers. The numerous allegations of
"ritualistic child abuse" have NO hard evidence to go on , and one by one, the
cases are falling apart. I've followed the McMartin Day Care thing for quite a
while, and it's a comedy of errors all the way. Even one of the DA's assistants
quit because he said the children were being manipulated. The FBI doesn't
believe it exists, and neither does the Wisc. Governor's Task force leader on
"cult Crime" All the hard evidence is in the area of crazy teens.
--- QuickBBS v2.01
* Origin: Rock Island (on) Line - Newalla, Ok.- (405)391-9488 (1:147/3)
Msg#: 2062 *BULLETIN BOARD*
07/10/88 21:23:00 (Read 0 Times)
From: BRAD HICKS
To: KEN ARBUCKLE
Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 2048 (RE: SATANISM, ET AL)
KA> Are you suggesting that Satanism has no Jonestown's to
KA> its credit?
If he's not, then I am.
I'm not a Satanist, but I insist that there is nothing like enough evidence to
convict Satanists per se of crimes, or to link any Satanic group or
organization to any massacre, mass or individual.
--- Sirius 0.50
* Origin: WeirdBase * St. Louis * 1-314-741-2231 * (Opus 1:100/523)
Msg#: 2269 *MAGICKNET*
07/00/88 08:35:00 (Read 0 Times)
From: ROWAN MOONSTONE
To: FARRELL MCGOVERN
Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 2261 (RE: ONE MORE TIME)
From what I've collected and studied, we're dealing with two seperate
phenomena here. First, we have the kids who are high on drugs and
more than a little socially maladjusted. These are the cases whith
concrete proof. these are the cases where they have bodies, and animal
carcases, and 'Satanic grafitti" etc. HOWEVER, these cases are usually
the kind which are related to some other cause, ie, the drug theft that
precipitated the Kasso/Lawlers case, and NOT primarily for "religious"
reasons.
Then there is the other type, which as fr as I can see is pure "urban
legend". This is the myth of the highly organized Satanic groups preying
on children in daycare centers and practicing human sacrifice. This is
the group that's supposed to practice ritual child abuse and human
sacrifice, and have highly placed public figures active in the groups.
There is not ONE SHRED of CONCRETE evidence in any of these cases.
There is a LOT of heresay and circumstantial evidence, but nothing
that would hold up in a court of law.
I agree, lets not get caught up in a Witch Hunt otHf the Satanists
and ceremonial Magicians just to save our own hides. Let's show the
rest of the world that this IS urban legend!!! There are some cops out
there that know it is, like Ken Lanning with the FBI and a couple of
others that I'm corresponding with. Let's see if we can start an
educational movement instead of feeding the fires. After all, we are
still under the constitution which says innocent UNTIl proven guilty!
BB Rowan
--- QuickBBS v2.01
* Origin: On The Edge BBS - OKC's only source for MAGICKNET (1:147/4)
Msg#: 2273 *MAGICKNET*
07/00/88 08:38:00 (Read 0 Times)
From: ROWAN MOONSTONE
To: ALFGAR MAHARG
Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 2269 (RE: ONE MORE TIME)
After hearing a little about how Terry researched his book, I think
he's a real slimeball, and I wouldn't believe him if he said snow was
white. The chapter head of the N. D. branch of WLPA works with the
sister of Arliss Perry, who is mentioned in the book as the first
murder victim. Seems Mr. Terry came to N. D. and talked to the family
representing himself as working with the N.Y. Police dept. He never
mentioned to the family that he was writing a book, and they had no
idea, until it turned up in print. Prarie Wind says they're not the
type to sue the bastard, although "I" certainly would! She says the
family's gone through hell all over again since the publication of
"Ultimate Evil" even to the point of having people call them at home
and ask if they had a copy of the book that culd be borrowed!!! THAT"S
insensitivity at it's highest point( or lowest, depending on the
point of view!!) BB Rowan
--- QuickBBS v2.01
* Origin: On The Edge BBS - OKC's only source for MAGICKNET (1:147/4)
Msg#: 2279 *MAGICKNET*
07/10/88 00:37:00 (Read 0 Times)
From: FARRELL MCGOVERN
To: PAT CRUMHORN
Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 2273 (RE: ONE MORE TIME)
PC> 93. OK. I know there are many people on this echo who are
PC>quite tolerant of fundamentalist christianity. I do not happen
PC>to be one of them. Are there like-minded people here who would
I don't like 'em either, but they have done one good service. I
formerly Chirstian friend of mine who was sympathetic to Paganism/The Craft
essently became Pagan when a Pentacostal harrased her about not being a
"True Christian" because she couldn't "Speak in Tongues". So, she became a
pagan, and now is priestess of her own coven. For this service, I do
believe that they do serve a usefull purpose...
ttyl
Farrell
---
* Origin: Solsbury Hill:Home of ’ristic Computer Consultants (Opus
Msg#: 2223 *MAGICKNET*
07/00/88 16:18:00 (Read 1 Times)
From: ZHAHAI STEWART
To: PAT CRUMHORN
Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 2192 (RE: ONE MORE TIME)
PC> We could put out a quarterly newsletter, distributed to all
PC>major law-enforecment groups, that would totally dwarf any of
PC>the "occult crimes" newsletters, both in sheer number of cases
PC>and in horrific details.
Actually, part of what would be good is to be an example of better
documentation and standards of evidence. The anti-cult people need to be shown
up for what they are.
---
* Origin: Adelante - 300 meters above Boulder, CO (Opus 1:104/93)
Msg#: 2245 *MAGICKNET*
07/00/88 11:09:00 (Read 1 Times)
From: ZHAHAI STEWART
To: ROWAN MOONSTONE
Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 2223 (RE: ONE MORE TIME)
Rowan, I agree that it is very hard for people to come out of the broom closet
- but despite coming from different backgrounds, maybe what Joe is advocating
is not all that different from what you have been advocating: education and
public awareness as a counter to the distortions which will be promulgated
whether we all hide or not. I haven't heard him say it is easy, but that it is
the only way to defend ourselves in the public view.
Now, there are two ways this could be taken - that everybody has to come out
publically (which I have never seen you advocate; to the contrary you have
supported the rights of those who want to remain the hidden children) - or that
some of our people who feel a calling (a type of Warrior?) will work publicly
(and hopefully without too much harassment from those hidden children who feel
that NOBODY should let on that we even exist). If Joe is calling for the
latter, it seems to me that you two are in tune; if the former, he does need a
deeper understanding of the situation.
B*B ~z~
PS: Joe, which is it?
---
* Origin: Adelante - 300 meters above Boulder, CO (Opus 1:104/93)
Msg#: 2260 *MAGICKNET*
07/11/88 19:51:00 (Read 0 Times)
From: ROWAN MOONSTONE
To: JOE TOTARO
Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 2245 (RE: ONE MORE TIME)
Joe, I DO think that several folks, like Mike Warnke and Lauren Stratford are
saying there is an international Satanic conspiracy. File 18 cites 50,000 human
sacrifices a year!!! This certainly sounds like they think its a pretty big
thing. I think the truth is that we have a few isolated bunches of crazies
here, but try convincing Larry Jones and Vile 18 of that!!! Some of the things
I'm doing currently include constructing a time line of all the cases of
significance and making map markings in different colors for actual cases with
"hard" evidence and cases of "urban legend " type rumors. Should prove
interesting. BB Rowan
---
* Origin: WeirdBase * St. Louis * 1-314-741-2231 * (Opus 1:100/523)
Msg#: 2261 *MAGICKNET*
07/11/88 19:54:00 (Read 1 Times)
From: ROWAN MOONSTONE
To: MICHELLE HASS (Rcvd)
Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 2260 (RE: ONE MORE TIME)
Michelle, I'd really loe to get a look at those files. Could I send you a blank
disk and get them that way? I've got HUGE hardcopy files of a LOT of hate
material. I could send you a listing of what I've got if you're interested.
I've already sent copies to Gordon Melton and ACLU, Circle and the WLPA. BB
Rowan
---
* Origin: WeirdBase * St. Louis * 1-314-741-2231 * (Opus 1:100/523)
Msg#: 2196 *MAGICKNET*
07/10/88 11:34:00 (Read 0 Times)
From: JEFFREY NONKEN
To: DAVID RICE
Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 1997 (RE: HERE WE REALLY GO AGAIN!)
> What the hell?!?!? What does bikers and homosexuality
> have to to with satanism!?!? Good-fucking-grief!! (sorry
> folks.) Where have you been for the past 30 years?
>
> Bikers are for the most part very decient, law abiding
> citizens of our community. I rode a bike for three years
> and know that bikers get a lot of shit thrown their way
> for little or no logical reason other than ignorance.
Now Dave, how can you say that? Everybody KNOWS bikers are violent, homosexual
rapists. They sweep across the countryside like a plague of locusts, rapacious
and unstoppable. The Hell's Angels are a mild but otherwise typical example of
the complete moral bankruptcy driving a motorcycle can lead you to. And the
women who ride with them are all sluts.
I say we should defend our freedom and shoot all motorcyclists on sight.
I wish I had seen the original message you are replying to!
--- Opus 1.03b <> NoOrigin 3.1
--- ConfMail V3.31
* Origin: Ophiophile Opus (1:103/522.5)
Msg#: 2264 *MAGICKNET*
07/10/88 19:11:00 (Read 0 Times)
From: ALFGAR MAHARG
To: MICHAEL BARNETT
Subj: RESTRICTED ACCESS
I am curious as to how "pagan sympathizers" are required to demonstrate their
credentials -- especially as I have seen more than one complaint in craft press
about people pretending to be friendly as Fundie Infiltrators. How do you
establish that someone is _not_ a mole?
---
* Origin: OPUS DEII = BaphoNet-by-the-Sea (718) 499-9277 (Opus 1:107/293)
Msg#: 2270 *MAGICKNET*
07/00/88 08:38:00 (Read 0 Times)
From: ROWAN MOONSTONE
To: FARRELL MCGOVERN
Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 2110 (RE: SNEER IF YOU LIKE BUT...)
The fact that this particular urban legend could sound appealing to
some psycho chills my blood. Sooner or later, some nut is going to
try the ritualistic child abuse thing, if it hasn't already been done.
Then the Witch hunters will say" SEE, WE WERE RIGHT ALL ALONG!" I
wish the industry would see that it's provided them with a perfect blue
print and a guarantee of all the attention they could want. Sometimes
well meaning people are SO STUPID!!! BBl Rowan
--- QuickBBS v2.01
* Origin: On The Edge BBS - OKC's only source for MAGICKNET (1:147/4)
Msg#: 2305 *MAGICKNET*
07/11/88 21:00:00 (Read 0 Times)
From: ZHAHAI STEWART
To: ROWAN MOONSTONE
Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 2270 (RE: SNEER IF YOU LIKE BUT...)
RM>Sooner or later, some nut is going to try the ritualistic child abuse
RM>thing, if it hasn't already been done. Then the Witch hunters will
RM>say" SEE, WE WERE RIGHT ALL ALONG!"
This is one of my biggest concerns too. Every time there is some non-occult
identified horrific crime, they have to watch out for copycats. Every time
product poisoning hits the news, there are new outbreaks. Clearly there are a
LOT of sick people around ready to imitate what they hear about. If one were
cynical, they might wonder if the occult crime industry would be all that
displeased in private if their activities wound up being self fulfilling -
their business would increase.
On a less dangerous but very parallel track, a few years ago there were a few
authors and speakers who made a pretty handsome living telling everyone about
the dangers of computer crime. They repeated a few incidents incessantly, it
got coverage and clippings as if these were many separate incidents. They made
outrageous claims that billions (!) of dollars were being stolen every year,
yet they couldn't find many new incidents to add to their litany. The reason
was that companies tend to want to hush up incidents (true, but it is pretty
amazing that the few incidents which came to light amounted to so many orders
of magnitude less). So how did they get their figures? Mumble mumble. Anyway,
for a while you couldn't pick up a computer trade journal without reading that
white collar computer crime paid off very well (hundreds of thou per incident),
was only very rarely caught, and even when caught the companies usually were
generous in settlement in order to keep publicity down - almost never including
prosecution. It was simultaneously the best possible plug for people to commit
computer crime (and published in the best possible media), and a great anxiety
buildup to sell their services. Either effect benefits the computer crime
expert - maybe they could find some more incidents for their lectures.
Unneccessary and often overly vague legislation was passed, much of which is
only tolerated because it is seldom used. The cited incidents, by the way,
were often only very peripherally involved with computers - sometimes the same
scams would have worked before computers (and probably did); only a small
minority involved programmers, but there was an intense paranoia that unhappy
or greedy programmers were a major threat to US business and had to be
surveiled and restricted constantly. Etc, etc, etc.
Even with the differences (occult crime experts are more dangerous!), I think a
similar mechanism is at work, often with no better motives. We don't have to
go all the way back to the prohibition of marijuana to find similarities.
B*B ~z~
---
* Origin: Adelante - 300 meters above Boulder, CO (Opus 1:104/93)
Msg#: 2271 *MAGICKNET*
07/00/88 08:44:00 (Read 0 Times)
From: ROWAN MOONSTONE
To: FARRELL MCGOVERN
Subj: RE: SATANISM, AND OTHER ICKY
Farrell, this woman went on national TV and admitted to participating
in MURDER!!! THERE IS NO STATUTE OF LIMITATIONS ON MURDER11111 Where
are the police in this instance. They've got an admitted murderer and
they're doing nothing. Has this been investigated??? Inquiring minds
want to know!!! BB Rowan
--- QuickBBS v2.01
* Origin: On The Edge BBS - OKC's only source for MAGICKNET (1:147/4)
Msg#: 2275 *MAGICKNET*
07/10/88 01:45:00 (Read 0 Times)
From: FARRELL MCGOVERN
To: ROWAN MOONSTONE
Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 2271 (RE: SATANISM, AND OTHER ICKY)
RM>Farrell, this woman went on national TV and admitted to participating RM>in
MURDER!!! THERE IS NO STATUTE OF LIMITATIONS ON MURDER11111 RM>Where are the
police in this instance. They've got an admitted murderer RM>and they're doing
nothing. Has this been investigated??? Inquiring RM>minds want to know!!! BB
Rowan
I would like to know too! I usually don't watch Geroldo, but I do
respect his integrity as a reporter. A reporter's source is considered as
confidential as the person who makes a confession to a Catholic priest,
although the law doesn't see it that way, a reporter will do everything
they can to protect their sources.
She should be brought to justice, and I hope that they are waiting for
her to slip up to nab her...but didn't anyone else see the show? Can you get
transcripts?
If I run across any info, I will post.
ttyl
Farrell
---
* Origin: Solsbury Hill:Home of ’ristic Computer Consultants (Opus
Msg#: 2304 *MAGICKNET*
07/11/88 20:54:00 (Read 0 Times)
From: ZHAHAI STEWART
To: ROWAN MOONSTONE
Subj: PAGAN PR & SATANISM CONFERENCE
Also to Brad.
Is there still any movement towards a meeting this fall on Pagan PR and Law
Enforcement, etc?
By the way, I notice in Circle Network News there is an announcement:
July 16-17: Conference in Rhode Island. A Pagan-sponsored public
forum addressing the problems of Satanic crime, Pagan public relations,
and other topics. Contact M.A.R.I., (401) 884-4352
(I figure that CNN is at least as widely available as MagicNet, so
reprinting it here won't hurt). Are you aware of these folks? It would be
interesting to know how their event is organized and what the results are. B*B
~z~
---
* Origin: Adelante - 300 meters above Boulder, CO (Opus 1:104/93)
Msg#: 2309 *MAGICKNET*
07/11/88 21:52:00 (Read 0 Times)
From: ZHAHAI STEWART
To: JOE TOTARO
Subj: RE: SATANISM, AND OTHER ICKY NASTIE
Joe, we have only gotten your views on real world satanism indirectly, as
comments about New Jersey, or agreement/disagreements with people here. It
would be interesting to just present an overview of what your research has
yielded in the way of conclusions. I gather that you think there are satanists
who do horrific crimes (you mentioned a figure of 2000 nationally, I think).
Do you agree with the distinction between disturbed teenagers not really
practicing religion, and organized abusive criminal religious satanists? Are
they really organized, and do they cover up major crimes? You also clearly see
that the folks here, who tend to follow paths of Wicca, Thelema, Native
American religions, Cabbala, etc., are a far cry from the satanists you have
investigated - have you run into many sources in your research that do not
understand this distinction? Tell us a bit about yourself and your researches,
if you will. I think it will help us all understand better, and miscommunicate
less.
B*B ~z~
---
* Origin: Adelante - 300 meters above Boulder, CO (Opus 1:104/93)
Msg#: 2346 *MAGICKNET*
07/00/88 14:57:00 (Read 0 Times)
From: SARAH DRAGONWING
To: ROWAN MOONSTONE
Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 2333 (RE: ONE MORE TIME)
I hate to see that stuff being done. I mean, the "Satanic" and "Craft" being
lumped into the same catagory. I guess since that is what I grew up with, it
kind of pulls my chain. Of course, Lindsay didn't do it any good with his
book,'Satan is alive and well on Planet Earth'. *heh*
Sarah
--- TBBS v2.0
* Origin: *Chrysalis* Multi-User (214) 519-0728 Dallas, Tx (124/214)
Msg#: 2348 *MAGICKNET*
07/12/88 14:21:00 (Read 0 Times)
From: BRAD HICKS
To: PHILLIP HANSFORD
Subj: RE: SATANISM, AND OTHER ICKY NAST
BTW, Phil, did anybody ever warn you that File 18 has marked you as one of the
people who's recruiting for the Vast Satanic Conspiracy?
--- Sirius 0.50
* Origin: WeirdBase * St. Louis * 1-314-741-2231 * (Opus 1:100/523)
Msg#: 2359 *MAGICKNET*
07/12/88 07:58:00 (Read 0 Times)
From: DAVID RICE
To: FARRELL MCGOVERN
Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 2348 (RE: SATANISM, AND OTHER ICKY NAST)
Satanism seems to be in vogue lately. Everyone wants to make a name by
"fighting satanism." Seems to me that to do so for media sake is worshiping
satan for money and prestige.
Here in L.A. one person a day is shot to death, and many more wounded. I doubt
if any so-called satanist could be as bad.
---
* Origin: Astro-Net 714 662-2294 The Lesbian Dorm (Opus 1:103/503)
Msg#: 2349 *MAGICKNET*
07/12/88 14:27:00 (Read 0 Times)
From: BRAD HICKS
To: ZHAHAI STEWART
Subj: RE: PAGAN PR & SATANISM CONFERENCES
I'm waiting for Rowan to get back to me about CoG's offer of possible
sponsorship. I have a tentative committment from Selena that if we can cover
costs, she'll be there. That's ALL I have.
Now that the Rhode Island conference is back on track, I'm not AS sure that
it's important. After this weekend, I'll call around (I've heard conflicting
reports about whether or not Selena would be there, and she's one of my usual
sources) and get an account of what went down. Will anybody on HERE be there?
If it seems to me afterwards that they didn't cover the material I wanted
covered, then I'll try to go full-steam-ahead on the October 23rd get-together.
--- Sirius 0.50
* Origin: WeirdBase * St. Louis * 1-314-741-2231 * (Opus 1:100/523)
Msg#: 2386 *MAGICKNET*
07/12/88 14:18:00 (Read 0 Times)
From: AMMOND SHADOWCRAFT
To: ALL
Subj: THE NEW MCCARTHYISM
F O R I M M E D I A T E A C T I O N I N C O L O R A D O
The state of Colorado is involved in another era of obnixous McCarthyism.
On 11 July 1988, Channel 13 in Colorado Springs aired a segment on Satanism. In
this segment KRDO, at 719-632-1515, stated that for ritualistic purposes,
pagans and witches were Satanists. (Please note that I did not see the segment
but heard about it from the community. We are trying to find a recording of
this broadcast presently.)
After several calls to the station we found that the station got their
information exclusively from one James McCarthy of the Sanctuary Institute P.O.
Box 4591, Boulder, Colorado, 80306. His phone is (303) 443-1486. This campaign
is dangerous. I personally know two witches that lost good jobs because of such
campaigns of mis-information. Please act now by writing to James McCarthy
indicating your concern.
As far as McCarthy is concerned all that are not Christian are Satanists. We
need to educate this man with letters, phone calls, and face to face
converstaions.
To preclude other campaigns of mis-information I propose that individuals or
covens in each area send form letters to their respective television and radio
stations indicating their willingness to talk about neo-Paganism and Wicca, or
for that matter anything else that might be misconstrued as Satanism. If we can
tell our story first we can derail religious propaganda before it gets on the
air.
Members of D.A.W.N in Denver have made some headway with local television and
radio stations. Members of WindFire Coven have recently
(July 8th, 1988) appeared on Channel 7 in Denver. Good PR can be
gotten, but we must voluenteer to talk. Otherwise the stations will ean upon
McCarthy types for information.
It seems that the infamous File18 is working it's way down slowly to a personal
level. We can do something about this campaign. It involves work and time.
After our calls to Channel 13 in Colorado Springs, we found that others had
been calling. The reporter was a little defensive but acknowledged that a
problem might have been generated. We will be watching tonight (July 12th) to
see if any clarifications will be made.
---
* Origin: SMARTNet - Changing for the better (Neat! It really is!) (Opus
Msg#: 2387 *MAGICKNET*
07/12/88 14:26:00 (Read 0 Times)
From: AMMOND SHADOWCRAFT
To: ZHAHAI STEWERT
Subj: THE NEW MCCARTHYISM...
Can you get us the latest address and phone number for the Sancturary Institute
in Boulder? Thanx.
---
* Origin: SMARTNet - Changing for the better (Neat! It really is!) (Opus
Msg. # 2628 Dated: 07/14/88 ( ) Subj: Philosophical Christians
To: All From: Sysop
R)ead, N)ext, P)revious, E)xit? Read
Left 17:39:14, 07/14/88
Was chatting with a 'Christian' who wondered where all the Christian
files were. I had to admit that this board doesn't paint a very
positive image regards Christianity...It isn't that there aren't any
files on it, there are (Just look at the HYSTERICA file area for a
sampling of the hate and lies propagated in the name of
Christianity.). But I have yet to see much on the Christian boards
which is positive, or even neutral...It would be nice to get some
positive articles on Christianity for this board. Surely Christianity
is concerned with more than name calling other religions and other
Christian sects. Surely there is more to it than reading the latest
Chic Publications about how to accept Jesus...Is there no substance to
Christianity? Is there no intellect? Is there no philosophy?...I agree
with much of Christianity in philosophy, just not in practice...And
so, if there happen to be any Christians (so called) out there reading
this message, I challenge you to find some *positive* files dealing
with Christianity and to upload them to the board. Also, feel free to
address these issues in the message base...(It is true that many
pagans have something of an anti-Christian attitude. Is it any wonder
what with all the conspircy lies being circulated against them by a
vocal minority of Christian Hysterics?)...//Phil//
Msg#: 2434 *BULLETIN BOARD*
07/14/88 21:55:00 (Read 4 Times)
From: BRIAN LANTZ
To: MICHELLE HASS
Subj: SATAN IS JUDGED - WHO CARES?
Satanism is like a lot of problems Christians only make worse by drawing
attention to, wasting their time talking about, and fundamentally with which
bore me to tears.
Anything associated with him is obviously going to be an obscenity. SO WHAAT?
Are our lives in Christ so boring that we have to occuppy oursevles with
obscenities? Has obscenity become such a curiosity ?
Brethern, as with a lot of other social nonsense, lets give it a break. Ignore
it - and over a period of time, I can GUARANTTEE ya'all it will go away.
In Christ, Brian.
---
* Origin: The Key of David*San Diego,CA*(619)479-2104 (Opus 1:202/113)
Msg#: 2476 *MAGICKNET*
07/13/88 11:27:00 (Read 0 Times)
From: FARRELL MCGOVERN
To: PHILLIP HANSFORD
Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 2473 (RE: HERE WE GO AGAIN. PT. 2)
PH>I hope you won't misunderstand me when I say this, but it seems
PH>apparent that there are 'Good Satanists' and 'Bad Satanists'...
PH>Just because one does not happen to agree with another's religious
PH>beliefs does not mean we should criticize them, or lump them
PH>all together with the 'bad guys'...Satanism *does not* equal
PH>the sorts of crimes that have been often associated with it.
PH>I wish that the 'Good Satanists' would be more vocal on this...
I do understand this, since the person who turned me onto Crowley was (at the
time) a Satanist. I was still a Christian then, but was having a great deal
of problems with it...and I didn't think Satanism was they way out since it
simply took everything I disliked and turned it upside down. An ugly piece
of art doesn't improve by turning it upside down! BTW, this person is now
practicing the Craft, and has totally turned her back on Satanism.
ttyl
Farrell
---
* Origin: Solsbury Hill:Home of ’ristic Computer Consultants (Opus
Msg#: 2481 *MAGICKNET*
07/13/88 19:31:00 (Read 0 Times)
From: FARRELL MCGOVERN
To: JOHN MCCLIMANS
Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 2476 (RE: HERE WE GO AGAIN. PT. 2)
JM>I agree! I also resent being labled a satanist! I am not a christian
JM>heretic! On the other hand, when Margot Adler was interviewing
JM>for Drawing Down the Moon, She interviewed all of the Church
JM>of All Worlds priest/esses and the only thing that we all agreed
JM>on was that if we were not being a threat to society, then we
JM>were not doing our job right. But then we were a sassy bunch.
JM>And you know about weirdos who really believe that THOU ART GOD/DESS
Right On! A lot of Discordianism seems to be along the same lines, but
maybe a little bit more surrealistic. Or, to quote the head of the
surrealistic anarchists in _Metrophage_:
"I am here by the authority of the people, and I will not leave till I
get my raincoat back!"
What a great battle cry!
lytt
llerraF
---
* Origin: Solsbury Hill:Home of ’ristic Computer Consultants (Opus
Msg#: 2504 *MAGICKNET*
07/15/88 19:41:00 (Read 0 Times)
From: JOHN MCCLIMANS
To: FARRELL MCGOVERN
Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 2481 (RE: HERE WE GO AGAIN. PT. 2)
Have you run into the Poll Parot discordians yet? The ones that can zip off
"hail Eris" or All hail discordia" faster that a Roman Catholic can say a Hail
Mary? My usual response to them is to tell a story about a discordian who upon
debarking from his airplane at gate 23 was told by a friend that it might be a
message for some other discordian on the same airplane rather than for him.
---
* Origin: ThelemaNet - Hail Eris! * (415) 548-0163 (Opus 1:161/93)
Msg#: 2487 *MAGICKNET*
07/13/88 20:10:00 (Read 0 Times)
From: FARRELL MCGOVERN
To: ALFGAR MAHARG
Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 2418 (RE: RESTRICTED ACCESS)
AM>I am curious as to how "pagan sympathizers" are required to demonstrate
AM> their credentials -- especially as I have seen more than one
AM>complaint in craft press about people pretending to be friendly
AM>as Fundie Infiltrators. How do you establish that someone is
AM>_not_ a mole?
Simply ask them to say the Lord's Prayer backwards. If they ask you
"are you feeling O.K.? Or have you been smoking some of those funny
cigarettes?" or something along those lines, you have a legit pagan type. If
they run fleeing from you, THAT is the Christian mole.
ttyl
Farrell
---
* Origin: Solsbury Hill:Home of ’ristic Computer Consultants (Opus
Msg#: 2491 *MAGICKNET*
07/15/88 18:08:00 (Read 0 Times)
From: DAVID RICE
To: AMMOND SHADOWCRAFT
Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 2386 (RE: THE NEW MCCARTHYISM)
Though I can comfortable call myself "Pagan," I cannot bring myself to write a
letter to McCarthy (!) and tell him where I live!!! That's like asking him to
send his goons to get me. The closet is where I belong, as it seems the safest
place to be.
---
* Origin: Astro-Net 714 662-2294 The Lesbian Dorm (Opus 1:103/503)
Msg#: 2495 *MAGICKNET*
07/15/88 14:32:00 (Read 0 Times)
From: JUDY HARROW
To: AMMOND SHADOWCRAFT
Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 2491 (RE: THE NEW MCCARTHYISM)
A friendly suggestion: in contacting tv and radio stations, it helps to have
some sort of information packet to include with the letter. Producers are often
strapped for time and need to inform themselves about an amazing variety of
subjects in each work week (if you've ever wondered how they could dare
interview an author without having read the book, it's because some of these
folk interview 20 authors a week.)
Something that looks professional - good spelling, margins, punctuation, etc.
and reads calm and informative is a big help to them. In this context, what
helps them helps us.
A good resource, that I am personally proud of my role in creating, is an
article on Witchcraft that appeared in the September 1987 issue of New Woman
magazine. Not that it says anything you couldn't tell them yourselves, of
course, but somehow the fact that this information has already been filtered
through some objective, outside minds seems to lend credibility. And the
proofreading and layout are already done for you.
Don Frew did a Public Information Officer's manual for CoG that would be an
excellent resource for you; and Diana Paxon is currently working on a more
broadly defined version of the same.
Best of wishes, Witches. I have always been somewhat awed by the courage of
those who are open Witches away from the Coasts (and Chicago). Our moral and
"tactical air" support are with you. warmly / Judy
---
* Origin: OPUS DEII = BaphoNet-by-the-Sea (718) 499-9277 (Opus 1:107/293)
Msg#: 2515 *MAGICKNET*
07/16/88 00:06:00 (Read 0 Times)
From: FARRELL MCGOVERN
To: ZHAHAI STEWART
Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 2305 (RE: SNEER IF YOU LIKE BUT...)
ZS>much of which is only tolerated because it is seldom used. The
ZS>cited incidents, by the way, were often only very peripherally
ZS>involved with computers - sometimes the same scams would have
ZS>worked before computers (and probably did); only a small minority
ZS>involved programmers, but there was an intense paranoia that
ZS>unhappy or greedy programmers were a major threat to US business
ZS>and had to be surveiled and restricted constantly. Etc, etc,
ZS>etc.
ZS>
ZS>Even with the differences (occult crime experts are more dangerous!),
ZS>I think a similar mechanism is at work, often with no better
ZS>motives. We don't have to go all the way back to the prohibition
ZS>of marijuana to find similarities.
I think that it is true of just about everything that has freedom
inherent in it. Computer networks are probably the next to come under fire,
since there is really no regulation, and thus any possible crime can be
inherent in it. Computer networks are probably the next to come under fire,
since there is really no regulation, and thus any possible crime can be
committed over them....we saw a bit of this when that sysop had his system
confiscated for having card numbers on it, it could be they are just
waiting, monitoring, looking for something that will be big enough to
generate enough public opinion to push though a bill regulating data
communications.
Simularly, they are probably looking for some incident, or series of
incidents to try and raise public opinion against the "satanist witches". In
that Geroldo show I mentioned before, they were saying that the Son of Sam
killings were actually done by more than one person, all of them being members
of some "Satanic" group. Do you NY^2 people know anymore about this?
ttyl
Farrell
---
* Origin: Solsbury Hill:Home of ’ristic Computer Consultants (Opus
Msg#: 2519 *MAGICKNET*
07/16/88 00:43:00 (Read 0 Times)
From: FARRELL MCGOVERN
To: DAVID RICE
Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 2518 (RE: SATANISM, AND OTHER ICKY NAST)
DR> Satanism seems to be in vogue lately. Everyone wants to make
DR>a name by "fighting satanism." Seems to me that to do so for
DR>media sake is worshiping satan for money and prestige.
DR>
DR> Here in L.A. one person a day is shot to death, and many
DR>more wounded. I doubt if any so-called satanist could be as bad.
I am not so much concered with the actual "rise" of "Satanic" crime so much as
the public's perception of who is involved. It would be hard for the average
person on the street to think we are involved in "Satanic" crimes if we seem
to be fighting them...
ttyl
Farrell
---
* Origin: Solsbury Hill:Home of ’ristic Computer Consultants (Opus
Msg#: 2597 *MAGICKNET*
07/17/88 00:51:00 (Read 0 Times)
From: ROWAN MOONSTONE
To: BLANCHE WATTENBERG
Subj: MOLES
That's a difficult thing. We in the WLPA know of at least one mole in the form
of a not too sympathetic cop who's gotten initiated into at least 2 covens in
the Phoenix area.They were NOT too pleased to find out, but the info is
reliable, straight from the horse's mouth, in writing!!! BB Rowan
---
* Origin: WeirdBase * St. Louis * 1-314-741-2231 * (Opus 1:100/523)
Msg#: 2652 *MAGICKNET*
07/18/88 00:15:00 (Read 0 Times)
From: JUDY HARROW
To: ROWAN MOONSTONE
Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 2597 (RE: MOLES)
Just to confuse everybody, I want to share an experience. A local coven was
penetrated by a journalism student. The young man had no personal interest in
the Craft, but was writing a major feature article on it as his Master's thesis
in Journalism School. When the coven leader found out about the deception,
great pain and shock and resentment were the feelings.
But that young man did the Craft two great services. We were at that time in
the last stages of our battle for the right to perform legal marriages. The
City Corporation Counsel had issued a decision in our favor, and the last ditch
effort of the Clergy Registry was to bury that decision in a file and not
inform us about it. The journalism student got ahold of the decision and turned
it over to us. With it in hand, we finally were able to get registered as
clergy. Then the same young man wrote the Liberty Magazine article - the one I
think I sent you - and that article has proven a useful handout and credential
over the years.
He lied to us, he cheated - but he also helped us a great deal. I still don't
know how I'm supposed to feel about all this.
It is just possible that some of these moles will report back saying - those
people are crazy and probably damned - but I didn't see them roasting any
babies. There is such a thing as basic honesty and fairness. Perhaps we should
work magic that the truth be known about us, and let the Lady's wisdom guide us
from there. warmly / Judy
---
* Origin: OPUS DEII = BaphoNet-by-the-Sea (718) 499-9277 (Opus 1:107/293)
Msg#: 2600 *MAGICKNET*
07/17/88 01:01:00 (Read 0 Times)
From: ROWAN MOONSTONE
To: AMMOND SHADOWCRAFT
Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 2495 (RE: THE NEW MCCARTHYISM)
Speaking from experience, I would say that whatever you do to Mr. McCarthy is
definitely NOT going to result in him changing his mind one iota. The thing to
concentrate on here is the media. concentrate on the TV and radio stations and
leave McCarthy out of it. He's probably expecting and looking forward to a
fight. Be perverse and don't give him a direct confrontation. It's a wte of
energy. BB Rowan
---
* Origin: WeirdBase * St. Louis * 1-314-741-2231 * (Opus 1:100/523)
Msg#: 2602 *MAGICKNET*
07/17/88 01:12:00 (Read 0 Times)
From: ROWAN MOONSTONE
To: FARRELL MCGOVERN
Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 2275 (RE: SATANISM, AND OTHER ICKY)
We're getting there. I've established contact with a number of cops . One in
particular in the south is using me as resource material for his research.
Let's hope this leads to something good. BB Rowan
---
* Origin: WeirdBase * St. Louis * 1-314-741-2231 * (Opus 1:100/523)
Msg#: 2612 *MAGICKNET*
07/16/88 13:17:00 (Read 0 Times)
From: OZ TECH
To: ALL
Subj: BOOK REVIEW: LYONS' SATAN WANTS YOU
I've just picked up a copy of Arthur Lyon's book, SATAN WANTS
YOU: THE CULT OF DEVIL WORSHIP IN AMERICA, from Mysterious
Press. I though I would describe to you, since people here
occasionally discuss the topic. It's got a rather spooky
picture of LaVey on the cover.
Although there seem to be a few factual flaws here and there,
this is to be expected in a work that tries to deal with the
more lurid and sensationalist side of the occult. Lyons traces
the strange history of Satanism, a tradition almost entirely
defined by the imagination of fearful Christian theologians
and Inquisitors, passed on by historians and journalists, and
today -- as always -- the scape-goat, the image of all that
conventional society fears in itself.
Along the way he delves into some of the groups and individuals
accused of Satanism by others -- the early pagans groups, the
victims of colonial rule, the Knights Templar, the Freemasons,
Aleister Crowley -- as well as the more rare cases of professed
Satanic organizations, such as the Process Church of the Final
Judgement, the Church of Satan, the Temple of Set, and the
Church of Satanic Liberation. Lyons explores, too, the forms
taken by solitary Satanism, ranging from the harmless fancies
of teenagers to the psychotic insanity of Charlie Manson, the
Night Stalker, and others who ascribed their deeds to Satan.
---
* Origin: IBM_Tech_Fido (Opus 1:322/1)
Msg#: 2613 *MAGICKNET*
07/16/88 13:19:00 (Read 0 Times)
From: OZ TECH
To: ALL
Subj: BOOK REVIEW: LYONS' SATAN WANTS YOU PART 2
Lyons shows some degree of critical awareness; he notes, for
example, the conflicts between the picture of the Process
painted by the sociologist William Bainbridge versus the
claims of journalist Ed Sanders . On the other hand, he does
occasionally repeat tidbits of doubtful origin, such as the
tale about Temple of Set High Priest Michael Aquino's "666"
scalp tatoo, which Aquino ridiculed on the Oprah Winfrey
show earlier this year.
Lyons is especially to be recommended for his chapter on the
Vast Satanic Conspiracy, an new version of a centuries-old
myth circulated by the Romans about the early Christians,
subsequently used against the Jews, and now making the rounds
of talk shows and seminars in many parts of the country.
"Despite a significant committment of law enforcement
personnel and technology, no evidence to back up the allegations
has been produced...it is possible that Satanic child abuse is
the St. Vitus' dance of the 1980's."
I myself find particular significance in Lyons' down-to-earth
sociological asessment of Satanism in cultural context. In
this regard I can do no better than echo a quote he cites from
the historian Jeffrey Burton Russell:
"The Devil has no doubt some interest in cultural despair, Satan
chic, and demonic rock groups, but he must be more enthusiastic
about nuclear armament, gulags, and exploitative imperialism."
Oz Tech
---
* Origin: IBM_Tech_Fido (Opus 1:322/1)
Msg#: 2656 *MAGICKNET*
07/17/88 21:52:00 (Read 0 Times)
From: ROWAN MOONSTONE
To: ALL
Subj: A WORD IN EDGEWISE
Well, I finally got to do something last Thursday that I've been absolutely
itching to do. The local talk radio show had a representative of Mike Warnke
ministries on to talk about some animal mutilations they found on an altar in
an island in eastern Okla. He went on about ritual child abuse and I'd jhust
had it. I called the station and talked on the air with him for about 15 min
and got to present my case for there being NO evidence for ritualistic child
abuse. He couldn't answer my statements at all! I have the tape if anyone wants
a copy of it. The whole show runs about 30 min. Just send me a blank tape if
you want it. I'm rather proud of it myself. Bb Rowan
---
* Origin: WeirdBase * St. Louis * 1-314-741-2231 * (Opus 1:100/523)
Msg#: 2681 *BULLETIN BOARD*
07/20/88 15:39:41 (Read 0 Times)
From: ROWAN MOONSTONE
To: MICHELLE HASS
Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 2538 (SATAN IS JUDGED - WHO CARES?)
Oh, Michelle, do I agree with you!!1 I received a lovely notice from a
Christian sysop of a c net bbs here in OKC today. He said that though he was
Christian and I am a Pagan, we're both just people and if Russia and the US
got along like he and I, there would be no nuclear bomb threat. He's taken an
ENORMOUS amount of flak from other Christians for allowing me to run a Wicca
sub board on his board, but all in all, this man has shown me more of Christ
than all the other people I have known put together. ( I would have answered
you from lRock Island except Brother Matthew has forbidden me to speak to other
pagans in this area from his board. )BB Rowan
--- TBBS v2.0
* Origin: Cult Monitor LA (818)985-2701 (102/744)
Msg#: 2726 *MUNDANE*
07/17/88 01:23:00 (Read 0 Times)
From: ROWAN MOONSTONE
To: FIONN MACCUMHAIL
Subj: THAT STRANGE ECHO
You don't know the half of it. I was in a lengthy conversation with Mathew
tonight and he told me that if I cannot talk to other Pagans on his board. I'm
only supposed to talk to Christians on that echo so I can learn the error of my
ways!!1 I couldn't believe it. He's cut my access so I can't post there, just
read, and he won't raise it again until I agree to follow his rules. Guess I'll
just have to play from Wierdbase or go out to Cult Monitor. Strange man if I
ever saw one!!! I'll send you a copy of the Irish Bibliography with the check
for the book. BB Rowan
---
* Origin: WeirdBase * St. Louis * 1-314-741-2231 * (Opus 1:100/523)
Msg#: 2761 *MUNDANE*
07/19/88 09:39:00 (Read 0 Times)
From: LIZ HAHN
To: ROWAN MOONSTONE
Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 2756 (RE: THAT STRANGE ECHO)
Dear Rowan,
> I'm only supposed to talk
> to Christians on that echo so I can learn the error of
> my ways!!1 I couldn't believe it. He's cut my access so
> I can't post there, just read, and he won't raise it again
> until I agree to follow his rules. Guess I'll just have
> to play from Wierdbase or go out to Cult Monitor. Strange
> man if I ever saw one!!!
I hope you Do hang in there and find a way to keep participating--not so much
to bang your head against the wall but for the opportunity to present
alternative thinking to those who may be open to it. While I am not eager to
post under the conditions that Matthew has laid down, I am encouraging him to
expand his rules a little (if not his thinking) for the good of the Echo.
If he doesn't, he may find himself shouting at the mirror all alone.
Aloha,
Liz
---
* Origin: Kauai1 - Aloha (Opus 1:161/414)
Msg#: 2763 *MUNDANE*
07/18/88 08:32:00 (Read 0 Times)
From: ROWAN MOONSTONE
To: RUSS ANDERSON
Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 2201 (RE: CULT_WATCH ECHO)
Well, he's figured out what to do. Seems I was making too good an
impression on some folks. I've now been told that I may not converse
with other pagans in that area. I may only speak to other Christians
and Matthew, and then only so they can instruct me in the errors of
my ways and lead me to the true faith. Honest. I have it in print from
a chat session I had with Matthew. He dropped my access level to the
echo to read only until I agree to comply with his requirements. I think
I'm just gonna go out to Cult Monitor and participate from there. I'll be
Damned if I'm gonna be muzzled by that turkey when I'm being polite
and respectful and only trying to educate folks on the true nature
of my beliefs and religion. I'm NOT proselytizing, whatever he
may say. I was asked for some informationa and I tolk the guy I
had it and he could come byy the house to get it and ZAP, my access
got lowered Matthew seems to think that by allowing me to speak freely
on his board, he's giving time to the devil, and he says he can't do
that. Even claims to be proud of being so narrow minded. SHEESH!! what a
strange man. Even the other Fundies think he's overboard. BB Rowan
--- QuickBBS v2.01
* Origin: On The Edge BBS - OKC's only source for MAGICKNET (1:147/4)
Msg#: 2802 *MAGICKNET*
07/18/88 14:39:00 (Read 0 Times)
From: MARTHA BRUMMETT
To: JUDY HARROW
Subj: BOOK-BURNING AGAIN
Right on! The minority in Boulder (and they are not really that small a
minority) are the majority elsewhere. The standard Christian sects are losing
ground to these fundamentalist groups, who are not too ethical to use many
techniques of commercial "PR" and promotion.
It is getting dangerous for many people, not just Pagans: while Unitarians talk
about apartheid, Methodists about gay ministers, and Episcopalians about women
bishops, the Full Gospel Drive-in Tabernacle buys another television station.
These people have enormous influence over the media, and in Texas, where many
people on this echo are, the schools there, dominated by a claque of
small-minded Puritans and Republicans, are making the major decisions
concerning textbooks which attempt to re-write and water down history, and to
reduce literature to self-serving pablum. That is what we are all up against.
NEVER ANOTHER ALEXANDRIA!
--- QuickBBS v2.01
* Origin: CYBER-ZONE: Reality, The BIG Illusion (303) 860-0126 (1:104/61)
Msg#: 2811 *MAGICKNET*
07/18/88 08:22:00 (Read 0 Times)
From: ROWAN MOONSTONE
To: FARRELL MCGOVERN
Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 2602 (RE: SATANISM, AND OTHER ICKY)
I REALLY DO THINk that if folks like thiis woman and Mike Warnke and
others who admit to everything from rape and kidnapping to murder,
were to be arrested on suspicion and investigated, there would be a
LOT less "ex satanists" running around making big $$$ of the gullible
public. BB Rowan
--- QuickBBS v2.01
* Origin: On The Edge BBS - OKC's only source for MAGICKNET (1:147/4)
Msg#: 2815 *MAGICKNET*
07/19/88 09:25:00 (Read 0 Times)
From: ROWAN MOONSTONE
To: JUDY HARROW
Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 2652 (RE: MOLES)
I've seen the paper this Ranger wrote about the Craft groups in Arizona and
it's really good. He essentially tells the truth about the
Craft, it's just that he didn't ask permission before reporting this
to all and sundry. I had word from my networking friend last night
that more of this man's stuff is on the way, including guidlines for
infiltrating a coven. Also, a lot of stuff on the inner workings of
the coven he infiltrated, which is being forwarded to the Elders of
said coven. We've heard that this Ranger is being transferred to Kansas.
anyone with contacts in Kansas might tell them to be on the alert for
moles. BB Rowan
--- QuickBBS v2.01
* Origin: On The Edge BBS - OKC's only source for MAGICKNET (1:147/4)
Msg#: 2127 *MAGICKNET*
07/23/88 12:04:00 (Read 0 Times)
From: BRAD HICKS
To: PHILLIP HANSFORD
Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 1631 (RE: SATANISM, AND OTHER ICKY NAST)
Yep, that's the one I meant. (I was at least 1/4 kidding, anyway.) But your
experience matches mine on the accuracy of material published in File 18 - not
a few of the phone numbers they gave for MagickNet back in 87-5 were also
wrong, some of them obviously so like giving Gene Clayton an 800 phone number.
--- Sirius 0.50
* Origin: WeirdBase * St. Louis * 1-314-741-2231 * (Opus 1:100/523)
Msg#: 2131 *MAGICKNET*
07/20/88 09:18:00 (Read 0 Times)
From: FARRELL MCGOVERN
To: MARTHA BRUMMETT
Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 2090 (RE: BOOK-BURNING AGAIN)
MB>Right on! The minority in Boulder (and they are not really that
MB>small a minority) are the majority elsewhere. The standard Christian
MB>sects are losing ground to these fundamentalist groups, who are
MB>not too ethical to use many techniques of commercial "PR" and
MB>promotion.
And not just public brain washing techniques, they are probably using
them on their own "flock", judging by the reactions you get from them, and how
quickly they get results. I know one person who was basicly a scum of the
universe type, bigoted, etc. Over the space of about 3 months he became a
member of a local Pentacostal church...Now one priestess I know was, at one
point, a practicing Christian, working in sort of a Pagan/Christian type
solo tradition. This person then latched upon her, and told her that she could
not be a true Christian until she could speak in tongues. Through his
influence...no she did not become a Pentacostal...she toss away
Christianity and has become a strait pagan type member of the Craft!
MB>It is getting dangerous for many people, not just Pagans: while
MB>Unitarians talk about apartheid, Methodists about gay ministers,
MB>and Episcopalians about women bishops, the Full Gospel Drive
MB>in Tabernacle buys another television station.
I really wish there were more Evangelists like Dr. Rev. Scott! I
remember being up late one night when the "Pay me or God will take me away"
crusade was on, and Scott came up with a really unique idea...He said to
watch the show for a few times, and if you didn't like it, don't send any
money, but if you were getting something out of it, please do send some
money...could it be...Shareware Religion!
MB>These people have enormous influence over the media, and in Texas,
MB>where many people on this echo are, the schools there, dominated
MB>by a claque of small-minded Puritans and Republicans, are making
MB>the major decisions concerning textbooks which attempt to re
MB>write and water down history, and to reduce literature to self
MB>serving pablum. That is what we are all up against.
MB>
MB> NEVER ANOTHER ALEXANDRIA!
I hate to tell you this, but please take a look in some of your
textbooks down there. Look for references to the war of 1812. Not many? I can
tell you why...it was the first war that the US didn't win.
Your textbooks won't tell about how a force of less than 100 men held
off a whole army (I think it was the 5th) comming up the Niagara Peninsula to
invade Canada, how we burned down your "Pink House" and you burned down our
House of Parliment (which was in Toronto at the time.). Then there was the
Battle of New Orleans, which took place months after the Peace Treaty was
signed. Did you know that the term "Cajin" is a devolved word...
"Canadian"?
It is from this war that all the Paranoia about Free Trade stems. But
if you want to continue this, we should do it in Mundane...
ttyl
Farrell
---
* Origin: Solsbury Hill:Home of ’ristic Computer Consultants (Opus
Msg#: 2146 *MAGICKNET*
07/23/88 08:28:00 (Read 0 Times)
From: MARTHA BRUMMETT
To: ROWAN MOONSTONE
Subj: RE: SATANISM, AND OTHER ICKY
I hope I can get some good thoughts to you as you testify as an expert witness.
This type of case is very clouded with emotion of all kinds, and is becoming
more and more so.
But I wonder about the necessity of going through all that--is the money so
important to this young woman that she would even acknowledge who the
biological father of the child is. I honestly think that such disclosure
rivals love of money for being the root of all evil.
--- QuickBBS v2.01
* Origin: The 8th Sea (1:104/610)
Msg#: 2148 *MAGICKNET*
07/22/88 18:15:00 (Read 0 Times)
From: OZ TECH
To: DANIEL SEGARD
Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 1993 (RE: BOOK REVIEW: LYONS' SATAN WANTS YOU)
Well, perhaps it's very boring in Idaho.
I noticed that too ("student of Satanism"). It's not clear to me if
a student of Satanism would be more or less creditable on Satanism,
than a student of dentistry would be on dentistry.
But I don't think the book "defends" Satanism. Did I say that?
Oz Tech
---
* Origin: IBM_Tech_Fido (Opus 1:322/1)
Msg#: 2243 *MAGICKNET*
07/26/88 08:40:00 (Read 0 Times)
From: ROWAN MOONSTONE
To: MICHELLE HASS
Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 2191 (RE: BOOK-BURNING AGAIN)
Had a line on a new "must read" book last night from my fellow
WLPA pit bull. :"Cults that Kill" by Larry Kahaner, Warner Books,
1988, $17.95 hardback. She read the first 2 chapters and called
screaming at me. Seems they were already into dear Mr. McCarthy by
then. I'm gonna hit up interlibrary loan for a copy and if it's
worth it, I'll fork over the $$ come payday to put it in the library.
She says it's pretty bslanced all in all. They interview Ken Lanning
from the FBI and Dale Griffis from Tiffin, Ohio and those guys are
pretty cool about this "Satanic conspiracy" thing. They don't think
it exists. We'll see. BB Rowan
--- QuickBBS v2.01
* Origin: On The Edge BBS - OKC's only source for MAGICKNET (1:147/4)
Msg#: 2246 *MAGICKNET*
07/26/88 08:53:00 (Read 0 Times)
From: ROWAN MOONSTONE
To: MARTHA BRUMMETT
Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 2243 (RE: BOOK-BURNING AGAIN)
I can't see that they're losing much credibility. Hve you been
following the brou ha ha about the fils"The ALast Temptation of
Christ"? They were able to shut down the switchboard at Universal
studios with their phone calls, and now they're trying to buy the
film and burn all the copies. Somehow, I can't see this as them
losing ground. BB Rowan
--- QuickBBS v2.01
* Origin: On The Edge BBS - OKC's only source for MAGICKNET (1:147/4)
Msg#: 2171 *MAGICKNET*
07/24/88 09:35:00 (Read 0 Times)
From: ROWAN MOONSTONE
To: AMMOND SHADOWCRAFT
Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 2083 (RE: THE NEW MCCARTHYISM)
Ammond, PLEASE be careful. If I were you, I'd tape the whole thing and possibly
have photos. You never know what he might accuse you of in a direct
confrontation. I frankly wouldn't trust this man around a glass corner. He
might just relish the opportunity to cre "harrassment" or "threats, " or even
"assault". Proceed with EXTREME caution. BB Rowan
--- QuickBBS v2.01
* Origin: On The Edge BBS - OKC's only source for MAGICKNET (1:147/4)
Msg#: 2347 *MAGICKNET*
07/25/88 20:22:00 (Read 0 Times)
From: RAVEN DRAGONRUNE
To: MARIBETH DREHER
Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 2346 (RE: THE NEW MCCARTHYISM)
Opinion: do the show, but call it a "New Age" show...That catches more
favorable reactions and fewer bad ones.....=WE= know that "witch" is not a bad
word, but the effort to educate the ignorant is hindered by the fact that they
live in a "tunnel reality" which often dictates that they ignore =ANYTHING=
that contradicts what their church has taught, before even listening to us.
They literally CANNOT allow themselves to give us a fair hearing----- so my own
cautious opinion, the way reality seems from my viewpoint, is that the New Age
label is safest.....
***RAVEN***
--- TBBS v2.0
* Origin: *Chrysalis* Multi-User (214) 519-0728 Dallas, Tx (124/214)
Msg#: 2356 *MAGICKNET*
07/28/88 09:10:00 (Read 1 Times)
From: JUDY HARROW
To: ZHAHAI STEWART
Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 2324 (RE: BOOK SACRIFICE)
I dunno, Z, this is a very hard one for me to call. My gut feeling seems to be
opposite of that of whoever I'm discussing it with most recently. There's
something primally horrible about book-burning -- something that goes back to
childhood Jewish history lessons that probably alluded to hand-copied scrolls.
I think there ought to be some way to protect books and cultural artifacts from
destruction just as I would hold Santeros responsible for the public sanitation
aspects of their practices.
I listen in to the Fundie radio station occasionally, and to this day you will
catch reports from missionaries *bragging* about how they had induced some
native village to destroy the cultural heritage of centuries. Usually not
books, but sculpture and the like, but still the physical anchors of their
culture. This is the culmination of acculturation, similar to Alexandria,
making it very much harder for later generations to reconstruct the Old Ways if
they want to. Don't *we* know how terribly hard that is.
In other posts, you've talked about how the destruction of a piece of land -
somebody's private property - impoverishes the community and the planet.
Destruction of information whether encoded in writing or in sculpture and other
symbols feels to me like calling a community's heritage "property" and
I listen in to the Fundie radio station occasionally, and to this day you will
catch reports from missionaries *bragging* about how they had induced some
native village to destroy the cultural heritage of centuries. Usually not
books, but sculpture and the like, but still the physical anchors of their
culture. This is the culmination of acculturation, similar to Alexandria,
making it very much harder for later generations to reconstruct the Old Ways if
they want to. Don't *we* know how terribly hard that is.
In other posts, you've talked about how the destruction of a piece of land -
somebody's private property - impoverishes the community and the planet.
Destruction of information whether encoded in writing or in sculpture and other
symbols feels to me like calling a community's heritage "property" and
-More-
destroying it.
I also think it's wrong because I think all baneful magic is wrong, but that's
a personal belief of mine that I do not advocate making enforceable.
warmly / Juyd
---
* Origin: OPUS DEII = BaphoNet-by-the-Sea (718) 499-9277 (Opus 1:107/293)
Msg#: 2237 *MAGICKNET*
07/24/88 09:22:00 (Read 1 Times)
From: HOWARD GERBER
To: TIM MARONEY
Subj: RE: BLOOD ON THE WIRE
TM> Margolis, an attorney, hopes the report will lead to
TM> consideration of a law banning animal killing and torture as part
TM> of a religious ceremony.
It looks like the the authorities are forgetting that animal scarifice was the
basis of the pre-Christian Jewish religion and the major form of worship for
most other early religions.
--- ConfMail V3.31
* Origin: Two Wheelers = Wondrous Opus of Cycling 713-682-6508 (1:106/88)
Msg#: 2326 *MAGICKNET*
07/26/88 09:03:00 (Read 2 Times)
From: ZHAHAI STEWART
To: PHILLIP HANSFORD (Rcvd)
Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 2242 (RE: SATANISM, AND OTHER ICKY)
PH>I heard from some guys in the Department of Defense
PH>asking for leads on Satanic Organizations, as a result of
PH>the mention (I got the letter in spite of the wrong box number.).
Interesting. Did they explain why the DOD would be interested? Off hand it
does not seem like their cup of tea (or mandate) to be investigating domestic
religions or even alleged criminal activities; or were they looking for some
new weapons?
---
* Origin: Adelante - 300 meters above Boulder, CO (Opus 1:104/93)
Msg#: 2376 *MAGICKNET*
08/01/88 11:10:45 (Read 1 Times)
From: PHILLIP HANSFORD
To: ZHAHAI STEWART
Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 2326 (RE: SATANISM, AND OTHER ICKY)
Re. the guys at the Dept. of Defense who wrote to me because my name was
mentioned in File 18, no, it was never clear whether they were inquireing on
behalf of the Dept. of Defense, or on their own. However, they did mention that
they worked for the DOD. I never wrote back...//Phil//
--- TBBS v2.0
* Origin: Cult Monitor LA (818)985-2701 (102/744)
Msg#: 2321 *MAGICKNET*
07/26/88 10:23:00 (Read 1 Times)
From: DANIEL SEGARD
To: OZ TECH
Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 2148 (RE: BOOK REVIEW: LYONS' SATAN WANTS YOU)
It is not Lyon's "credibility" or "knowledge" of Satanism that is likely to get
questioned. It would be more along the lines of his "bias" on the subject.
They would look upon his information in about the same light that most of us
would look upon a book written by the head of the CIA in. Would you expect to
see the head of the CIA give an accurate portrayal of CIA involvment in Central
America? (Probably not.)
So, in the same way I would suspect that most of those who are paranoid about
"Satanists murdering innocent children" are going to view anything that Lyons
says about it with skepticism. Just as with the CIA, people are going to
question how much Lyons is actually covering up what he knows about "what is
REALLY going on".
Idaho probably is a boring place in some respects. Although with the amount of
Klan and Identity activity going on up there, I'm not sure how "boring" it
could really be. I've heard that many of the Identity people have somewhat of
a backhanded relationship with "Satanic religious practice". That could just
be rumour though.
Question EVERYBODY's motives.
--- QuickBBS v2.01
* Origin: The 8th Sea (1:104/610)
Msg#: 2329 *MAGICKNET*
07/25/88 23:16:00 (Read 2 Times)
From: SCOTT LADD
To: ROWAN MOONSTONE (Rcvd)
Subj: RE: SATANISM, AND OTHER ICKY NASTI
I tend to agree with your opinion about Mike Warnke and company -- I still
can't figure out how they get away with admitting to the commision of major
crimes without being investigated.
BTW, a friend of mine went to a Warnke concert a year or so ago.
Sitting in the audience in front of my friend was a bald man and a woman, both
of whom sported unusual tatoos (spiderwebs on the fingers, for example). When
the concert was over, both individuals saluted Warnke with the "Satanic
two-finger salute". You don't suppose Mike is out there making people laugh
about Satanism as a smokescreen...
Or maybe he's just making a tidy profit...
--- ConfMail V3.3
* Origin: Duck Point -- Quacking up in Denver, Colorado (1:104/45.2)
Msg#: 2331 *MAGICKNET*
07/25/88 23:28:00 (Read 2 Times)
From: SCOTT LADD
To: PHILLIP HANSFORD (Rcvd)
Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 2127 (RE: SATANISM, AND OTHER ICKY NAST)
Could you send me a copy of the letter you received, or at least
illuminate me as to its contents? I find it fascinating that the Dept. of
Defense is interested in Satanic groups...
Send it to: P.O. Box 61425, Denver, CO 80206, or post a message here. Thank you
in advance!
--- ConfMail V3.3
* Origin: Duck Point -- Quacking up in Denver, Colorado (1:104/45.2)
Msg#: 2377 *MAGICKNET*
08/01/88 11:15:39 (Read 1 Times)
From: PHILLIP HANSFORD
To: SCOTT LADD
Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 2331 (RE: SATANISM, AND OTHER ICKY NAST)
As I recall the letter asked me for information on networking used by the
occult community (especially regards bbs's). They also especially wanted names
of aversive occult groups and their leaders. The letter is around here
somewhere (under some papers), but that is the jist of it...//Phil//
--- TBBS v2.0
* Origin: Cult Monitor LA (818)985-2701 (102/744)
Msg#: 2394 *MAGICKNET*
07/28/88 20:14:00 (Read 1 Times)
From: SHARON CROKE
To: ROWAN MOONSTONE
Subj: "UNFIT" MOTHER CASE
> Wish me luck.
> I think I'm
> gonna need it. BB Rowan
Best of luck to you, Rowan, and thanks for being willing to defend the Craft in
such a public manner.
Luckily for the mother involved in this case, there is ample precedent for
denying the father's petition in cases of religious incompatibility. I don't
know of any regarding Pagan vs Fundy specifically. Do you know this woman
personally? With so many varieties of paganism around the other side will of
course attempt to paint her in the light of the worst of them, and you being
the voice of reason for YOUR version of the Craft wouldn't help her if she was
associated with the more sensationalized versions.
Unluckily for the mother, such cases have almost always resulted in the father
being awarded the right to expose the child to his beliefs and attempt his
version of religious education. The poor kid is really
going to be caught in the middle if Daddy insists Mommy is a Satanist
you're going to hell if you continue to live with her, etc. (I used to work
for a lawyer/adoption agency and got "exposed" to this. Ugh)
Please keep us updated on this case! What paper will it be reported in (if
any, although depending upon the local one's bent, it could be all over the
media)?
--- Opus 1.03b, NoOrigin 3.2, &
--- ConfMail V3.31
* Origin: TIDMADT 703-370-7054: Right near the Pentagon... hmmm...!
Msg#: 2423 *MAGICKNET*
07/28/88 15:26:00 (Read 1 Times)
From: ZHAHAI STEWART
To: ROWAN MOONSTONE
Subj: FUNDAMENTALISTS LOSING GROUND?
Rowan, I think they are losing ground; however any movement that has millions
of people and can raise hundreds of millions of dollars is significant even
while receding; nobody said they weren't dangerous. My comments were just
relating to the idea that their power was growing every day, rather than the
idea that they have power.
B*B ~z~
---
* Origin: Adelante - 300 meters above Boulder, CO (Opus 1:104/93)
Msg#: 2426 *MAGICKNET*
07/28/88 18:45:00 (Read 1 Times)
From: SCOTT LADD
To: DANIEL SEGARD
Subj: AKRON
I suspect there is something more to what is going on in Akron, CO, than meets
the eye. Today, the DA for Akron dropped all charges and ended his
investigations, claiming that poor work by social workers and the interference
of the Denver Post made it impossible for him to uncover the truth.
For those who are unfamiliar with the incidents in Akron: seven children claim
to have been molested while at a day-care center. Some of the children
described being sodomized by adults in "hooded robes", and being forced to
participate in "rituals". One boy even described the decapitation-sacrifice of
another child (no body has ever been recovered, and no children in Akron are
missing).
According to the DA, a social worker with "strong Christian convictions" may
have implanted the stories of rituals, robes, and murder in the children's
minds. For instance, the boy who told of the murder did so only after six weeks
of therapy. It could be the social worker "convinced" the child of the
incident; it is also possible that therapy "unlocked" the childs memory of a
traumatic event.
There have been complaints by police and citizens of Akron that the DA has been
slow and clumsy in his investigation. Even the state government was looking
into him at one point. Is he incompetent -- or is he covering something up?
As Daniel says: "Questions EVERYONE's Motives"
--- ConfMail V3.3
* Origin: Duck Point -- Quacking up in Denver, Colorado (1:104/45.2)
Msg#: 2510 *MAGICKNET*
07/29/88 19:16:00 (Read 1 Times)
From: DANIEL SEGARD
To: SCOTT LADD
Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 2426 (RE: AKRON)
Well, maybe the case did get so contaminated that it was impossible to bring
the evidence up for a "fair trial". Or perhaps we have a coverup going on.
All of the so-called "experts" on Satanism make claims that community leaders
are involved and/or paid-off to keep things quiet. But that is probably
rampant paranoia and such ideas could probably be dismissed out of hand.
I'm sure that the officials in Akron have far more important things to
investigate than supposed Satanic murders. Why, just last month I heard that a
case in Akron was getting set to go to the Grand Jury. It seems that workers
in the County Clerk's Office were borrowing change from petty cash to pay for
coffee and rolls. They were paying it back by close of business, but that
isn't good enough for Akron. The employees involved will have to face the
Grand Jury for their heinous crimes against the County. See? Isn't that far
more important that children being murdered by supposed Satanists?
--- QuickBBS v2.01
* Origin: CYBER-ZONE: Reality, The BIG Illusion (303) 860-0126 (1:104/61)
Msg#: 2614 *MAGICKNET*
07/31/88 10:05:00 (Read 1 Times)
From: ROWAN MOONSTONE
To: DANIEL SEGARD
Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 2510 (RE: AKRON)
But Daniel, this only goes to reinforce the idea that Arthur Lyons espouses in
his book that these "Satanic Child Abuse" cases are so much Urban Legend. There
is NO PROOF anywhere... BB Rowan
P>S> Personally, I think if there is actual evidence of physical abuse or
sexual abuse on the child's body that someone should investigate the home
environment. Most sexually abused kids are victimized by someone they know and
trust, like family or close friends. There have been a lot of cases in this
area where children were molested by ministers at church.
--- QuickBBS v2.01
* Origin: On The Edge BBS - OKC's only source for MAGICKNET (1:147/4)
Msg#: 2444 *MAGICKNET*
07/29/88 10:24:00 (Read 2 Times)
From: ROWAN MOONSTONE
To: TONY IANNOTTI
Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 2439 (RE: MEDIA ALERT!!)
Lyons and Kahaner were both on Larry King Live on Wed. night this week.
I taped the whole thing and I thing it was pretty good. Kahaner needs to make
contact with some reputable folks from Santeris. maybe the Santero Priest from
the Hileyah Fla church should contact him. Bb Rowan
--- QuickBBS v2.01
* Origin: On The Edge BBS - OKC's only source for MAGICKNET (1:147/4)
Msg#: 2431 *MAGICKNET*
07/27/88 23:02:00 (Read 1 Times)
From: FARRELL MCGOVERN
To: ZHAHAI STEWART
Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 1933 (RE: RESTRICTED ACCESS)
ZS>
ZS> FM> Simply ask them to say the Lord's Prayer backwards. If
ZS> FM>they ask you "are you feeling O.K.? Or have you been smoking
ZS> FM>some of those funny cigarettes?" or something along those lines,
ZS> FM>you have a legit pagan type. If they run fleeing from you, THAT is
ZS> FM>the Christian mole.
ZS>
ZS>And if they regard this is nothing special and do it, you have
ZS>either a real Gothic or a mole under Deep Cover (who has been
ZS>just waiting to be asked, and will now expect to be let in on
ZS>the real dirt about paganism).
I guess we will have to include this in the Pagan Counter-Intellegence
guide, along with chapters on Frontal Labodamies and Christian Symbols
("Whadda mean the chapter only has 523 crosses?). B-)
ttyl
Farrell
---
* Origin: Solsbury Hill:Home of ’ristic Computer Consultants (Opus
Msg#: 2441 *MAGICKNET*
07/29/88 09:43:00 (Read 1 Times)
From: ROWAN MOONSTONE
To: SCOTT LADD
Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 2329 (RE: SATANISM, AND OTHER ICKY NASTI)
Scott, I haven't heard from you in a LONG time. I don't think Warnke is
fronting for the Satanists, but I do think he's power tripping something awful.
the funny folks in the audience were probably just trying to get a rise out of
him. Bb Rowan
--- QuickBBS v2.01
* Origin: On The Edge BBS - OKC's only source for MAGICKNET (1:147/4)
Msg#: 2542 *MAGICKNET*
07/30/88 09:14:00 (Read 1 Times)
From: MERLIN
To: SCOTT LADD
Subj: (R)AKRON
If you have a reference, could I get you to send a photocopy or disk
file? AM *very* curious about such incidents. We've had a few in Texas
and it often (very often) turns out when you cut the junque and get
"just the facts" that not much happened... not to impose but if it's not
a problem would appreciate it (My pob is 3456, Corpus Christi
78463-3456). Merlin
--- RBBSMAIL 16.1A.6
* Origin: Mailroom -MagickNet for S Tx- 512-850-9102 (RBBS-PC 1:160/50)
Msg#: 2544 *MAGICKNET*
07/30/88 13:47:00 (Read 1 Times)
From: MR. SYNTAX
To: SHARON CROKE
Subj: (R)"UNFIT" MOTHER CASE
Even if the woman involved does win
the case, I'd lay even odds that
that won't be the end of it...
Given the large number of cases of
children being kidnapped by parents
convinced that they're doing the
best thing for the child. With a
fundamentalist seeing their child
in custody of a pagan...
mr. s
--- RBBSMAIL 16.1A.6
* Origin: Mailroom -MagickNet for S Tx- 512-850-9102 (RBBS-PC 1:160/50)
Msg#: 2626 *MAGICKNET*
08/00/88 09:48:00 (Read 1 Times)
From: MICHAEL BARNETT
To: KEVIN SCOTT
Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 2343 (RE: THE WHOLE TRUTH...REALLY!)
> I was watching the "700 Club" (please, don't ask) last
> night at about 11:30 and I learned that a) I'm am a satan
> worshipper, b) I am possessed by aforementioned Satan
> and c)that everything I've done (in a magickal sense)
> for the last three years has put me in direct contact with
> demonic forces.
> The host of the show (Pat something) went to great
> length to explain how TM mantras were prayers to lucifer,
Do any of you guys agree with me that it is time for some slander
and libel lawsuits? I am thoroughly sick of being accused of things I have
never done and having my name "dragged in the mud". I wonder if WE could get
away with the kind of mudslinging that they use? It is certain that they will
continue to get away with it if we don't fight them where it hurts, hitting
their pocket books in court!
Isn't this what the Pagan Anti-Defamation League is about? If they will take on
these slanderers, I will happily donate $50.00 to the case.
Michael (becoming more radical) Barnett
---
* Origin: Liberty BBS (Opus 1:373/5)
Msg#: 2665 *MAGICKNET*
08/00/88 21:06:00 (Read 1 Times)
From: BRAD HICKS
To: ZHAHAI STEWART
Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 2553 (RE: SATANISM, AND OTHER ICKY NAST)
ZS> Interesting. Did they explain why the DOD would be
ZS> interested?
If my experience with the Defense Investigative Agency is at all
representative, they have doubtless come to the conclusion that being involved
in Satanism makes you vulnerable to blackmail and therefore a poor security
risk - the argument they use to keep Gays out of top-secret posts. Imagine the
scenario: you're a witch who's still in the broom closet, and someone finds out
and threatens to tell your employer, the media, and your parents if you don't
obtain such-and-such documents for them. As many oaths of secrecy as some
trads have, it doesn't seem =entirely= beyond the realm of belief that a witch
in that circumstance would sell out his or her country. Not even vaguely
likely, but with their track record, the DIA can't afford to overlook any
possibility. (At least, that's how they look at it.)
--- Sirius 0.50
* Origin: WeirdBase * St. Louis * 1-314-741-2231 * (Opus 1:100/523)
Msg#: 2697 *MUNDANE*
08/00/88 09:35:00 (Read 1 Times)
From: ROWAN MOONSTONE
To: MERLIN
Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 2563 (RE: FILE 18?)
File 18 is a publication put out by one Detective Larry Jones of Boise
Idaho for "police and other quilified persons". It is a newsletter that
supposedly deals with "occult crime". HOwever, the whole thing is
put out from a Fundie perspective and poorly researched to say the
least. Brad has 3 or 4 issues in the files section on Wierdbase if
you're interested in seeing this rag. I hope you have a strong stomach.
BB Rowan
--- QuickBBS v2.01
* Origin: On The Edge BBS - OKC's only source for MAGICKNET (1:147/4)
Msg#: 2741 *MAGICKNET*
08/00/88 11:01:00 (Read 1 Times)
From: ROWAN MOONSTONE
To: BRAD HICKS
Subj: MORNING GLORY AND THE PET SATANIS
I couldn't agree more with your reaction to the CAW statement. I don't think
it's at ALL wise for us to even admit that the crime exists. Ritual child abuse
had NEVEr been proven to exist and if we go around expressing our sympathies
with the "victims" of such, were lending credence to the urban legend. I've
researched it a lot and I just can't substantiate it.
Also, sounds like there are great deal of inconsistencies in the stories. I
sure hope MG doesn't show up with this lady at Dragonfest. I'm afraid I
wouldn't be too easy on her, and I just might get myself lynched
But if they want to prove it to me, they're gonna have to come up with names,
dates, places, and a lot more. I'm behind you 110% BRad!! BB Rowan
---
* Origin: WeirdBase * St. Louis * 1-314-741-2231 * (Opus 1:100/523)
Msg#: 2745 *MAGICKNET*
08/00/88 08:27:00 (Read 1 Times)
From: ROWAN MOONSTONE
To: MICHAEL BARNETT
Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 2626 (RE: THE WHOLE TRUTH...REALLY!)
The problem with slander suits is that the offending party has to NAME a
particular individual or group, such as Maury Terry did with the OTO
in "Ultimate Evil". Just going on TV and saying "Witches are Satanists"
isn't good enough. They have to go on and say"Michael Barnett is a Satanist" or
"Coven ------ is a Satanic group". THEN and ONLY then
can they be sued. At this point the best we can do is to as Brad says
"fight bad information with better information". On an up note, the case
in Canada where a former coven member turned Fundie and accused his
former HP of trying to sacrifice him was finally decided. The Witches
won!!! The Fundy TV show and the former covener have to pay $10000+
court costs. sometimes the good guys DO win!!! BB Rowan
--- QuickBBS v2.01
* Origin: On The Edge BBS - OKC's only source for MAGICKNET (1:147/4)
Msg#: 2746 *MAGICKNET*
08/00/88 08:37:00 (Read 1 Times)
From: ROWAN MOONSTONE
To: DAVID RICE
Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 2441 (RE: SATANISM, AND OTHER ICKY NASTI)
One way we can help fight "satanic crime" is to try to get these yoyos
to stop giving psychopaths blueprints to work from!!1 I'm wondering how
long it will be before some nut gets ahold of the "ritualistic child"
abuse stories and decides to try it. Brrr.... what a nasty thought. We
can work with the police when they come in contact with things they
don't understand that we might. We can talk to them about rumors of
funny goings on that we hear. Surely most of us are sensible enough
to know fact from braggihg??? And we can de bunk the popular myyths.
Grisly child murders linked to the "occult" might sell newspapers, but
they are not necessarily accurate or enlightening, and they can be
dangerous. BB Rowan
--- QuickBBS v2.01
* Origin: On The Edge BBS - OKC's only source for MAGICKNET (1:147/4)
Msg#: 2755 *MUNDANE*
08/00/88 10:35:00 (Read 1 Times)
From: DAVID RICE
To: MERLIN
Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 2697 (RE: FILE 18?)
You've probably already got an answer to your question "What is File 18?"
It appears to be a news letter published by a few Fundamentalist Christians in
an obscure Police Department. It's basic function is to use propaganda to link
crime to "Witches and other Satanist, occult practioners, heavy metal rock
music, and other non-conformers."
Though it is extreamly biased, it appears to be a genuine newsletter to combat
"Occult related crime." It is distributed to roughly 100 subscribers as of last
week's issue. It makes no distinction between mentally disturbed youngsters who
"like" Ozzy Ozborn and "Satan worshipers." It's main target is us.
I think the editor of File 18 is honestly intent on curbing crime, but she / he
is grossly ignorant of what she / he is talking about.
---
* Origin: Astro-Net 714 662-2294 Not For Pagans Only! (Opus 1:103/503)
Msg#: 2793 *BULLETIN BOARD*
07/30/88 23:07:00 (Read 0 Times)
From: KEN ARBUCKLE
To: ROWAN MOONSTONE
Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 1975 (RE: WELCOME)
Dear Rowan,
Your comments to Phil re "warlocks" may be true for you Wiccans, but there are
many other sects of witchcraft . Not all would avoid the term "warlock".
ken
--- TBBS v2.0
* Origin: The Family - Pittsburgh Harvester (412) 344-1315 (7000/12)
Msg#: 2798 *BULLETIN BOARD*
08/00/88 14:22:00 (Read 0 Times)
From: ROWAN MOONSTONE
To: KEN ARBUCKLE
Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 2793 (RE: WELCOME)
What other "sects of witchcraft are you talking about? Bb Rowan
--- ConfMail V3.31
* Origin: ROCK ISLAND (on) LINE (405)391-9488 Matthew Dunham (1:147/3)
From: MICHELLE HASS
To: KEN ARBUCKLE
Subj: RE: WELCOME
Public Message
01: Ok, so tell me straight...were you a Wiccan or were you a "Gothic", or
(9928)
02: "satanist"? MK-H
(editor's note...he STILL hasn't said what Trad he's from!!!
MK-H)
Msg#: 2794 *BULLETIN BOARD*
07/31/88 14:52:00 (Read 0 Times)
From: BRIAN JAZUDEK
To: PHILLIP HANSFORD
Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 1063 (RE: SATANISM, ET AL)
Good point Phillip Satanist do no kill or sacrifice animals or people for
that matter.
Brian
--- QuickBBS v2.01
* Origin: Maltese Alien * Carnegie, PA * (412) 279-7011 * FidoNet (1:129/41)
Msg#: 2795 *BULLETIN BOARD*
07/29/88 13:12:00 (Read 0 Times)
From: DR. DEATH
To: ALL
Subj: OUIJA BOARDS
Well does anyone out there know the truth about these mysterious boards. Is it
that these boards really contact different leves of demons(holy/evil). Or is it
just are innerselfs (selfconchus) or maybe just nervs. Or it coulkd also be a
tap into satan well first does anyone know where they ariginated? Some people
say salem but i dont belive it,i would gues sometime in amceint china or rome.
What about the story never burn a ouija or youll die within the next year
freaky ah. Tse things are really weird any info about them tell me im
interested thanks......
--- TBBS v2.0
* Origin: The Trading Post - Detroit (313)-882-7104 (120/10)
01: Here's an update on the "Last Temptation of Christ" front: The Rev.
(9931)
02: Hymers/Fundamentalist Tabernacle people showed up to do their protest
(9861)
03: yesterday, and were greeted with two things...Jewish Defense League boys
(9788)
04: forming a human chain around the Wilshire Boulevard Temple, and the news
(9715)
05: that, no, Lew Wasserman is NOT a member of that temple. They turned tail
(9641)
06: and left. Onward Christian soldiers, right...? MK-H
Msg#: 2819 *MAGICKNET*
08/00/88 09:41:00 (Read 0 Times)
From: FARRELL MCGOVERN
To: ROWAN MOONSTONE
Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 2675 (RE: THE NEW MCCARTHYISM)
RM>I'm willing to keep the archives. I've already got quite a number
RM>of videotapes and audio tapes as well as my voluminous clippings.
RM>I'll glady furnish anyonw with some VHS cassettes in return for
RM>copies of these tapes so we ALL can have them when they are needed.
RM>I LIKE archiving. I'm turning into an information junkie, and
RM>I find I'm quite good at it. BB Rowan
One day, we will have an integrated media, such that you will be able
to type "Find all references to Witches considered as Satanists" and it
will find everything in text...and video! It will be a long time comming, but
it may be sooner than you think. My fav saying about the computer industry
is that six months is a generation! And a generation is anything that brings
about a 10% reduction in price, or a 10% increase in information
processing. For example, in 6 months we have gone from a 16 MHz 386 CPU to a 25
MHz 386 CPU.
ttyl
Farrell
--- Opus 1.03b <> NoOrigin 3.1
--- ConfMail V3.31
* Origin: ’ristic Computer Consultants FNORD (1:163/523)
08/00/88 09:35:00 (Read 0 Times)
From: MICHAEL BARNETT
To: ISIS MOONSHADOW
Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 2834 (RE: THE WHOLE TRUTH...REALLY!)
In my case, in a local controversy discussion echo, a fundy kept telling me
that all "new agers" were Satanic and that since I was a "new ager"
(shudder) I was a Satanist whether I knew it or not! After a long harangue
and a threat of legal action I got a very sincere-sounding apology and a
retraction. I would like to think that the legal action threat was NOT the
turning point, but I had explained three times previously my position on
Satanists (I ain't one, cuz I don't believe he exists!), and was unable to
budge her position until direct threat of libel and slander action was
mentioned.
Blessed Be,
Michael
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* Origin: Gateway BBS - Huntsville, Al. (Opus 1:373/2)
Msg#: 2876 *MAGICKNET*
08/00/88 11:10:00 (Read 0 Times)
From: ZHAHAI STEWART
To: ROWAN MOONSTONE
Subj: RE: SATANISM, AND OTHER ICKY N
RM>the funny folks in the audience were
RM>probably just trying to get a rise out of him. Bb Rowan
Seems like the funny tattoos on their hands would have been a long way to carry
a joke; presumably they were themselves involved in something, even if their
salute to Warnke was sardonic?
B*B ~z~
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* Origin: Adelante - 300 meters above Boulder, CO (Opus 1:104/93)
(this message is part of a thread about the possibility of
Pagans purchasing land for a cemetary somewhere in Colorado.
This is included because of the obvious refs to anti-Pagan
Christian Hysteric activities, and the possibility of more)
Msg#: 2885 *MAGICKNET*
08/00/88 14:22:00 (Read 0 Times)
From: ZHAHAI STEWART
To: BLACKWOLF
Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 2879 (RE: BURIAL CUSTOMS)
B>There is no way that a project like this could
B>be kept secret and i'm sure that it would jump to the top of
B>the fundies 'hit lists' quite quickly.
Yeah, that's what I had in mind regarding defacement; one could expect wild
stories about the type of satanic rituals held there to circulate among certain
groups; there well might be a move to involve local government in closing down
such a place. I think all of this could be overcome, and that it is worth the
effort - but one has to be aware of the potential hassles and think about how
to handle them.
If there were no tombstones, there would be less to deface. A bush or tree
could be hurt, but there is less incentive and reward. Any buildings would
have to be sturdy (true of regular cemetaries, too, tho). Actually, it might
not be any worse than an isolated conventional cemetary.
There well may be no organized satanic conspiracy, but apparently a number of
gravesites DO get dug up by somebody! It really happens and is not all that
rare; one of the old mountain cemetaries around here, where there is no chance
of valuables or anything, got vandelized and dug up a while back.
B*B ~z~
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* Origin: Adelante - 300 meters above Boulder, CO (Opus 1:104/93)
Msg#: 2890 *MAGICKNET*
08/00/88 23:47:00 (Read 0 Times)
From: ZHAHAI STEWART
To: BRAD HICKS
Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 2821 (RE: SATANISM, AND OTHER ICKY NAST)
BH> ZS> Interesting. Did they explain why the DOD would be
BH> ZS> interested?
BH>
BH>If my experience with the Defense Investigative Agency is at
BH>all representative, they have doubtless come to the conclusion
BH>that being involved in Satanism makes you vulnerable to blackmail
He didn't say which agency of the DOD was involved (at least in any of the
message which have reached here so far) so this may be jumping to conclusions
(DIA is only one small piece of DOD).
Also, even if it were the DIA, just why would they be investigating what they
think to be experts on Satanism in general? If they are doing a background on
specific individuals, this makes no sense. I guess they could be gathering
files of all known and reputed satanists, with the intention of cross matching
them against all DOD personnell with security clearances, but this is also
pretty obnoxious and dangerous if so. Do they visit the known experts on gay
culture, under this mandate? This seems to either not wash, or to be
dangerous, or both. But we don't even know which agency yet, so it's not worth
pursuing much further on this track.
I do understand all you said about using such activities as bars to security
clearances (as with gays) on grounds of possible blackmail, so if they were
investigating a particular person whom they had reason to suspect of satanic
affiliation, and were focussing on people who might know more about that
specific person in this regard it would all make lots of sense, from their
professed purposes. But to contact someone blind, from a File 18 lead, seems
too far afield for this explanation.
B*B ~z~
* Origin: Adelante - 300 meters above Boulder, CO (Opus 1:104/93)
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