#apologetics: DEBATE LOGS - 4/15/96
#apologetics: DEBATE LOGS - 4/15/96
[00:18] Pilgrim7 (Pilgrim7@www-28-80.gnn.com) joined
[00:18] Rhapsody howdy
[00:18] What're your plans for tomorrow?
[00:18] yikes another Pilgrim
[00:18] howde pilllgrums
[00:18] yikes my software is going cuckoo
[00:19] I don't consider them life
[00:19] brbr but I won't be an op :(
[00:20] maybe things got better
[00:20] Pilgrim1 (email@example.com) left
[00:20] MrsTheo (firstname.lastname@example.org) joined #apologetics.
[00:21] how would you defend your belief in
[00:22] roy (Rooster@18.104.22.168) joined #apologetics.
[00:22] Hey roy
[00:23] good night every one god bless
[00:23] CTCP PING: 829455799 from MrsTheo (email@example.com)
[00:23] Rhapsody (Rhapsody@cyc-port2.mica.net) left
irc: Thank you for the great chat.
[00:23] Hey Mrs T:)
[00:23] Pilgrim7: What do you mean, exactly?
[00:24] if you were asked why do you believe,
is this apologetics
[00:24] Pilgrim7: Yes, apologetics is, in part,
offering a defense of the faith and advancing reasons
why others ought to believe.
[00:25] I know, why do you?
[00:25] Pilgrim7: Unclear. Why do I what?
[00:26] do you believe in God
[00:26] Mrs T how are you doing tonite?
[00:26] Pilgrim7: Several lines of reasoning.
(1) Personal experience. (2) Revelation. (3) Most plausible
[00:27] Roy: I am ok. How are you?
[00:27] MrsT: How's Doug?
[00:27] try 2 or three
[00:28] Pilgrim7: (3) As I evaluate the data
which life in this world presents me, God is the most
plausible explanation for things as I find them.
[00:28] Bud: Doug is experiencing more pain
and more fatigue. His doctor also thinks that his kidneys
are not working like they should.
[00:29] MrsT: Do you have confidence in his doctors?
[00:29] O.K. I accept that who is God
[00:29] Pilgrim7: Which position do we start
from; revelation or the natural world?
[00:30] Doing good MrsT...we had another pretty
day here in central Miss
[00:30] who is God, is there one or many
[00:31] Pilgrim7: If we start from (2), there
is only One.
[00:31] why is that
[00:32] Bud: our doctor is a Christian, so
we have confidence that he is doing all he can and
trying to find out what is wrong with Doug. Also, he
and his father have been personal friends of ours for
[00:32] Pilgrim7: Well, what does that revelation
[00:33] Having an interesting discussion with
a God-hating lesbian right now!
[00:33] well you assert that only God could
have created all there is, why only one
[00:33] Pilgrim7: Because that is how God has
[00:33] what is a God hating Lesbian
[00:34] Pilgrim7: Some person that just got kicked
from #bible for profanity. I'm trying to engage her
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[00:36] so has God revealed himself to you
[00:36] Pilgrim7: I believe He has, yes. That
revelation is mediated through the Bible.
[00:38] so in the end it is what you experience
in your life right
[00:38] Pilgrim7: Remember, that is (2) of 1-3.
And no, my personal experience is not the judge of
revelation. It is vice versa.
[00:39] Pilgrim7: The text changes me; the text
reads me. It is not I who judge the text.
[00:40] how can you convince a person with
[00:42] Pilgrim7: That's the point; we don't!
With the unbeliever _facts_ are never the issue; presuppositions
[00:43] so if you look at the life of a devout
muslim they would seem to be pleasing God wouldn't
[00:43] Pilgrim7: No, because the reject God's
revelation in Jesus Christ.
[00:43] MatthewJ (MatthewJ@theden.com) joined #Apologetics.
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[00:45] what is the proof of Christ being
the only way to salvation other than the bible
[00:46] Pilgrim7: There is none.
[00:47] then in the end it is personal experience,
basically the joy you feel when you have accepted him
as your savior
[00:48] Pilgrim7: I think that's a bit jejeune.
It's more like this:
[00:48] If the Bible is true in the areas we
_can_ test it
[00:48] it stands to reason that it is also true
in the areas where we cannot test it!
[00:49] my point is that all that can be disputed
but a personal experience cannot, and if you ask God
to reveal himself to you he will
[00:51] Pilgrim7: Even personal experience can
be disputed. Remember Dickens' "Christmas Carol?"
[00:53] are you suggesting interference, or
impersonation by satan
[00:54] Pilgrim7: a bit of undigested potato,
an imbalance in neurotransmitters, a drop of psylocybin,
[00:55] Pilgrim7: experience is where we start,
but it isn't where we end. If it is, then rational
discourse between sentient beings is impossible.
[00:55] Pilgrim7: That is where the postmodernists
begin and end - personal experience.
[00:55] I think God could get by all that
if you opened the door
[00:59] Topic changed by ApoloBotemail@example.com:
The Home of Rational Theism
[00:59] The holy Spirit reveals God and that
is a personal experience
[00:59] Pilgrim7: Yes, but where does this begin?
[00:59] Pilgrim7: God must invade that person's
world in some way.
[01:01] I think it is by touching a persons
heart, and that could be described either way I suppose
[01:05] peace be with you, thanks for the
[01:05] budso (firstname.lastname@example.org) left #apologetics.
[01:05] Pilgrim7 (Pilgrim7@www-28-80.gnn.com) left
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