(140)   Fri 28 Nov 97  1:32     Rcvd: Sun 30 Nov 11:07
By: Curtis Johnson
To: Fredric Rice
Re: Athens and the Atheists
St: Rcvd                                                                   287>
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 -=> Quoting Fredric Rice to All <=-


 FR> In the message which follows, "father Vaillancourt" wants to pretend
 FR> that Paul/Saul was greeted with "hoots and howls" of the people of
 FR> Athens and, even more outrageously, that Paul/Saul won the debate
 FR> which ensued.

 FR> Not according to the Christian mythologies.  According to the
 FR> Christian bible, the academic, educated people of Athens debunked the
 FR> bizarre and freakish myths and legends he was spinning about his Jesus
 FR> cult and the end of the world which, he said, was to come within
 FR> everyone's own lifetimes.

 FR> Paul/Saul startd out by first expressing his prejudices and bigotry
 FR> about the religions, gods, and goddesses which were held by some of the
 FR> people of Athens (he noticed non-Christian idols on his way into the
 FR> city) and he tried to demand that his own deity constructs were some
 FR> how superior and more real than all the rest.

 FR> Lacking any reason or evidence to back up his bizarre claims, the
 FR> results of the debate was obvious:  Paul/Saul and his merry men ran
 FR> off with their severed heads tucked under their arms rejecting the
 FR> offer to return for a second round of embarrassing debunking.

 FR> In other words:  In the face of truth he bravely ran away, away.

 fcv> Thank you for the warm greetings. No, I am not intimidated
 fcv> enough to leave this conference! Was St.Paul intimidated to leave
 fcv> Athens by the hoots and howls of the pagans?

 FR> You should really read your own cult's mythologies.  According to the
 FR> Christian mythologies, Paul/Saul, the terrorist of Tarsus, was soundly
 FR> _debunked_ by the townspeople of Athens and, after getting his occult
 FR> blathering put in its place, _rejected_ the request of the townspeople
 FR> to return for a second helping.

 FR> He bravely ran away, away.


    Acts 17:16-21:  "While Paul was waiting for them in Athens, he
 grew exasperated at the sight of idols everywhere in the city.  [Note:
 these would be the classical sculptures which millions now admire as
 the height of art.] In the synagogue he used to hold discussion with the
 Jews [note--he'd promised the Jerusalem church not to proselytize Jews]
 and those sympathetic to Judaism, as well as daily debates in the public
 square with ordinary passers-by.  Epicurean and Stoic philosophers
 disputed with him, some of them asking, 'What is this magpie trying to
 tell us?'  Others commented, 'He sounds like a promoter of foreign gods,'
 because he was heard to speak of 'Jesus' and 'the resurrection.'  They
 then led him off to the Areopagus, saying 'We are curious to know what
 this new teaching is that you propose.  You are introducing subjects
 unfamiliar to us and we should like to to know what it is all about.'
 (Indeed, all Athenian citizens, as well as the foreigners who live there,
 love nothing more than to tell aout orlisten to something new.)"

    Paul delivers his pitch.

    17:32-33:  "When they heard about the raising of the dead,
 some sneered, while others said, 'We must hear you on this topic
 some other time.'  At that point, Paul left them."
    18:1 seems to make it clear he left, not just the Areopagus,
 but Athens at this.

    Another translation has "burst out laughing" instead of
 sneered.  I don't know whether 'We must hear you on this topic
 some other time' would be a polite formula of dismissal, or a sincere
 request.
    Either way, it sure looks like he couldn't endure the
 humiliation--especially when one considers that this was from a
 source that didn't hesitate to falsify church history in order to
 make Paul look good.  Surely it would have recorded any winning
 arguments over Stoics and Epicureans for later use by its readers.

    BTW, v. 30 has this strange statement from Paul:  "God may
 well have overlooked bygone periods when men did not know him,"
 which rather undercuts the notion of divine omniscience.


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