(67) Fri 28 Nov 97 11:13 By: Richard Smith To: Fr.Chris Vaillancourt Re: Feedback St: ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ @EID:10f5 237c59a0 @MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 47ef4122 @REPLY: 1:246/15.0 347d7dad };> Fr.Chris Vaillancourt wrote in a message to Richard Smith <:( RS> Were you also unaware that this area in FIDO (and on your RS> board) was set aside as a sort of safe haven for people who RS> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ RS> didn't want to have to put up with your religion or the RS>^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ RS> religions of others? It is a place where religion can be RS>^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ RS> discussed honestly, on a level playing field. In essence, RS> you step into OUR house and we are merely responding. FCV> ===== FCV> Yes, this has already been pointed out to me by others. Yet I see you still here, still being judgmental and intrusive? Was there a word you didn't understand, Fahdah? I've even underlined the appropriate passage you should be paying attention to . . . FCV> Forgive me for being naive regarding the nature of this FCV> place. I am prepared to DISCUSS religion honestly if FCV> such is the requirements. That I have come across as FCV> arrogant is my fault, and I humbly beg forgiveness. You say this here, but in other posts you rabble rouse your brethren here and denounce us, second guess us, and denigrate us? And you WONDER why we react to you as we do? Since those posts are mutually exclusive (if you meant them both), it's clear you're being less than honest with SOMEONE (this is especially true if you DIDN'T mean both sets of posts). Who would that be, Fahdah? Important clue for the Fahdah: you're not unique. We react as we do because every fundy that's ever come down the pike as done exactly as you have done in some manner. Some of us held out hope for the Catholics, we were used to Protestants being holier-than-thou. To us, you're just repeating an ancient formula: if you can't coerce us into believing as you believe, . . . if you can't extoll us into believing as you believe, . . . if you can lie to us to get us to share your beliefs, . . . if you can't denigrate us for our beliefs in hopes that we will abandon them for your beliefs, . . . if you can't misrepresent yourselves in hopes that we will accept your beliefs, . . . if you can't convert our ruling body to make us convert to your beliefs, . . . if you can't try to force us to take your beliefs at the point of a sword, . . . if you can't torture us into accepting your beliefs, . . . all the while proclaiming that your beliefs are based on love (though your sacred text indicates otherwise), . . . then the only thing left to do is to shotgun us, tie us to a stake and burn us, press us to death under stones, hang us, flay us alive, etc., all in the name of your alleged and unevidenced savior deity. We'd rather it didn't come to that at all. RS> yup. Because priests are nothing special in this area (I RS> am one myself, for instance . . . and if I ever turn foolish RS> enough to make claims I can't substantiate, you can be sure RS> that the others in this area will be on me like a duck on a RS> junebug, even though fully half of them and I are friends) RS> and any person of a religious persuasion that comes storming RS> into here will get barked at. FCV> ======= FCV> That i identified myself for what I am was, trust me, not to FCV> make claims of being special. Being a priest is, of course FCV> my vocation, and forms me into the man I am. I'm sorry that your manhood doesn't exist, except under a cassock . . . FCV> I am not ashamed, despite the comments, of the Gospel FCV> of Christ. I see no Gospel of Christ . . . I see the gospels of other men who purport their words to be of Christ. Christ never wrote a Gospel that anyone knows of, and there is no evidence that we know of for even Christ's actual existence as anything other than a mythic figure. FCV> That comments of mine may have seemed wrong I regret. I FCV> point out that I am a man and thus subject to the same FCV> defensive postures of other men. Except that we shall know you by your actions, no? And Xtians, for all of their brouhaha, claim to have both a more exalted status, a right way of being, and a superior attitude. Yours was not a very Christ-like stance. And now that you're seeing that you're being treated as being insincere, you'd like to backtrack I'm sure. RS> This area, being what it is, the best you can hope for is RS> being ignored. Most of the WOAs here are hostile to RS> religion in general, for good reason, and don't put up with RS> it very much. FCV> ==== FCV> I have certainly been made aware of the particular FCV> hostility towards Christianity in this echo. You clearly misunderstand much. There is not so much a hostility towards Xtianity as there is a hostility towards ALL religion. Don't think yourself singled out. You're just being treated like anyone else who's failed the duck test of fundyhood. FCV> I feel very sad that it is so . You have only yourself and others of your ilk to blame. Almost all of the Pagans and WOAs and lapsed Xtians here have, at one time or another, been part of your faith. To the person, they were all driven from it by people such as yourself, with your attitudes, etc. Tell that to your brethren, Fahdah: this is the bed you have made, now you must lie in it. FCV> Again, I know full well what I represent, but I am not FCV> ashamed of Christ and/or the Gospels. We all know what you represent as well, and wonder that you don't feel ashamed, if for nothing other than your history of genocide, etc. FCV> Forgive me if I have offended you or anyone else. FCV> Might I ask that we end the attack and treat one FCV> another as men? Is this reasonable? In other words, I FCV> shall try to refrain from offending all and sundry. It's not up to me, Fahdah, it's up to you. We shall see how things progress, no? RS> Hardly a surprize, when you come barreling in prominantly RS> wearing the collar, as you did. If you justy wanted to have RS> discourse as a man, you could have just called yourself RS> Chris Vaillancourt. Yet you wanted to awe us with yet RS> another holy man come to debate us. Sorry. It didn't work. RS> Instead we just see someone who's come here to insult our RS> intelligence, to look down on us and pass judgment on us FCV> ========= FCV> Believe me, I was not trying to awe anyone, I just am not FCV> ashamed of my vocation. It is natural for me to sign my FCV> name the way I have for it is a large part of who I am. If FCV> it seems as if I was passing judgement, I am again very FCV> sorry. I feel rather guilty that I have gotten off on such FCV> a bad foot.Mea culpa... I merely point out that your title, proud of it as you are, IS a target, in neon, at the start of hunting season around here . . . As for your apologies, sorry if they seem to us to be a bit insincere . . . RS> Helping \/tian RS> To Stop /\tortion RS> \ FCV> P.S. Would you kindly explain to me what this means? Certainly, but I'd rather wait until I get all the sources and citations from you regarding your claims that I have asked for first. That way, the water will not get muddied. Naturam expellas furca, tamen usque recurret. Richard Smith --- timEd 1.01 * Origin: Syr Undry BBS ):> Bendigaid };> (916) 481-1301 (1:203/9046) SEEN-BY: 12/12 218/890 1001 270/101 353/250 396/1 3615/50 51 3804/180 @PATH: 203/9046 1102 992 396/1 3615/50 218/1001