(92) Tue 18 Nov 97 9:11 By: blanche@netaxs.com To: All Re: Re: The Ever-changing Gods St: ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ @EID:4b77 23724960 @MSGID: mid__347397d9.49299870@smtp.netaxs.com cef40001 @REPLY: mid__876_9711180516@tor250.org 69090001 @REPLYTO 1:2424/11.1 UUCP @REPLYADDR holysmoke@gryn.org @GID GIGO+ sn 245 at tor250 vsn 0.99.970109 From: blanche@netaxs.com (Blanche Nonken) Subject: Re: The Ever-changing Gods On 17 Nov 97 11:12:32 GMT, you wrote: > > > -=> Quoting Fredric Rice to Ken Young <=- > > ky> We were made in God's image. > > FR> All societies which create gods and goddesses do so in their own > FR> image, silly. Your deity constructs are in no way unique to that > FR> undeniable fact. > > Then the Hindus must have had access to some potent psychotropic > substances.... Or lived in a weird neighbourhood.... From "Plants of The Gods", Richard Evan Schults & Albert Hoffman (Yes, THAT Albert Hoffman) "Amanita muscaria is a beautiful mushroom growing in thin forests usually under birches, firs, and larches....(edited out description)...This mushroom, perhaps man's oldest hallucinogen, has been identified as Soma of ancient India." From the usage chart of the same book: COMMON NAME: Fly Agaric BOTANICAL NAME Amanita Muscaria (L. ex Fr.) Pers. USAGE: HISTORY AND ETHNOGRAPHY: Finno-Ugrian peoples in eastern and western Siberia. Several groups of Athabaskan peoples of North America. A. muscaria could very well be the mysterious god-narcotic Soma of ancient India, taken by the Aryans 3500 years ago. USAGE: CONTEXT AND PURPOSE: Shamanistic inebriation. Religious significance; healing ceremonies. Religious ceremonies. PREPARATION: One or several mushrooms are taken sundried or slowly toasted over a fire. They may also be drunk as an extract in water or reindeer milk or with the juice of Vaccinium oliginorum or Epilobium angustifolium. Ritualistic drinking of the urine of intoxicated individuals in Siberia also occurs. CHEMICAL COMPONENTS AND EFFECTS: Iboenic acid, Muscimole, Muscazone. Euphoria, colored visions, macropsia; on occasion religious fervor and deep sleep may occur. For those of you who want the ISBN number (I think it's out of print) ISBN 0-912383-37-2 -- | Gated by the premier Fido Technology Networks gateway . | Providing USENET, Internet Email and FTP hub facilities. | See "http://www.gryn.org" for details. --- * Origin: (1:2424/11.1) SEEN-BY: 12/12 218/890 1001 270/101 353/250 396/1 3615/50 51 3804/180 @PATH: 2424/11 10 12/12 396/1 3615/50 218/1001 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ (93) Tue 18 Nov 97 9:24 By: jjhitt@swbell.net To: blanche@netaxs.com (Blanche Nonken) Re: Re: The Ever-changing Gods St: ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ @EID:434d 23724b00 @MSGID: mid__3471a289.12026378@mail.swbell.net 8da90001 @REPLY: mid__347397d9.49299870@smtp.netaxs.com cef40001 @REPLYTO 1:2424/11.1 UUCP @REPLYADDR holysmoke@gryn.org @GID GIGO+ sn 245 at tor250 vsn 0.99.970109 From: jjhitt@swbell.net (J.J. Hitt) Subject: Re: The Ever-changing Gods Organization: Self X-Ftn-To: blanche@netaxs.com (Blanche Nonken) >> Then the Hindus must have had access to some potent psychotropic >> substances.... Or lived in a weird neighbourhood.... >COMMON NAME: Fly Agaric [...] >CHEMICAL COMPONENTS AND EFFECTS: Iboenic acid, Muscimole, >Muscazone. Euphoria, colored visions, macropsia; on occasion >religious fervor and deep sleep may occur. Um... they left off some very important "effects": convulsions, coma and death. It is VERY EASY to overdose on what is essentially a=20 toxic mushroom.=20 =20 Amnita (which grows all over north america) is likely to be the number one cause of accidental mushroom poisonings. (I readilly admit that I am guessing on this point, but feel I on rather safe ground and will be more than happy to come up with enough references to choke a horse if anyone is in a disputing mood. I might just be saving some silly bastard's life). It's genuinely nothing to fuck around with. Besides, who wants a pycho-religious experience where drinking urine is just part of the territory? J.J. Hitt (Houston, TX) jjhitt@swbell.net EOF -- | Gated by the premier Fido Technology Networks gateway . | Providing USENET, Internet Email and FTP hub facilities. | See "http://www.gryn.org" for details. --- * Origin: Self (1:2424/11.1) SEEN-BY: 12/12 218/890 1001 270/101 353/250 396/1 3615/50 51 3804/180 @PATH: 2424/11 10 12/12 396/1 3615/50 218/1001 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ (108) Tue 18 Nov 97 12:44 By: jjhitt@swbell.net To: blanche@netaxs.com (Blanche Nonken) Re: Re: The Ever-changing Gods St: ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ @EID:434d 23726580 @MSGID: mid__3471d136.23973334@mail.swbell.net 8c450001 @REPLY: mid__3471a289.12026378@mail.swbell.net 8da90001 @REPLYTO 1:2424/11.1 UUCP @REPLYADDR holysmoke@gryn.org @GID GIGO+ sn 245 at tor250 vsn 0.99.970109 From: jjhitt@swbell.net (J.J. Hitt) Subject: Re: The Ever-changing Gods Organization: Self X-Ftn-To: blanche@netaxs.com (Blanche Nonken) >>COMMON NAME: Fly Agaric > (I readilly admit that I am guessing on this > point, but feel I on rather safe ground and will be more > than happy to come up with enough references to choke > a horse if anyone is in a disputing mood. I might just be > saving some silly bastard's life). And I just might be overstateing things a bit. Still, this 40-year-old hippy is no prude about experimenting with recreational chemicals, but there's no way I can see justifying the risks involved with this one. I'd rather smoke paint chips and old bicycle tires. =20 Here's what I found on the Fly Agaric's toxicity: Toxicity: The name Fly Agaric comes from its traditional use as a fly killer. The cap was sprinkled with sugar or crumbled in milk to make a poisoned bait. The Fly Agaric is widely considered toxic to humans, but this is an unfair reputation, mostly stemming from its brightly coloured red & white cap which seems to advertise it as dangerous. The Fly Agaric's cousins, Amanita phalloides (Deathcap) and Amanita virosa (Destroying Angel), which are deadly poisonous may have contributed to the myth of its toxicity. The Deathcap is easily distinguised by a pale yellowish cap with a slight green tinge, and lack of white spots. The Destroying Angel is entirely white. It has been widely noted that poisoning from Fly agaric is very rare and almost never fatal. Fatalities typically involve ingestion of 1-2 dozen caps, and consumption of 10 is considered fatal. Eating more than two or three caps should be considered highly dangerous. =46ly agarics contain muscimol and muscazone (in smaller amounts and less active than muscimol) both are CNS hallucinogens. Ibotenic acid which is the principle agent of toggle-switch intoxication (which cause muscle spasms, flushing of the skin and drowsiness), and muscarine, a highly toxic alkaloid (muscarine content is extremely low, 0.0002% in fresh tissue) As the toadstools age the harmful toxins tend to increase, so younger caps are preferable for recreational use. Source: http://minaret.lincoln.ac.nz:8080/fly.htm And for a lovely description of what death by mushroom induced liver failure is like, go to: http://www.ansci.cornell.edu/jbwright/amahome.html Where we find: The Symptoms: 1.Amatoxins - The symptoms of amatoxin poisoning in humans are a ghoulish series of four phases, beginning with the not-too-alarming latency phase of 6-12 hours. This is followed by the gastrointestinal phase, where the human gets its first inkling that something is not quite right. The gastrointestinal phase consists of diarrhea,=20 dehydration, vomiting and, not surprisingly, abdominal pains. The third phase begins with the patient feeling deceptively better off (another=20 latency period) until the fourth and final phase hits.=20 The final phase consists of the final degradation of=20 the liver and kidney until, between the fourth and=20 eighth day after ingestion, the patient lapses into=20 hepatic coma combined with renal failure, ending in death. All this from a dose of 0.1 mg/kg body weight or even lower. That's not much mushroom to kill a person!=20 cholera-like diarrhea=20 dehydration=20 vomiting=20 abdominal pains=20 drop in coagulation factors=20 increase in liver enzymes (SGOT,SGPT,LDH)=20 hepatic failure=20 encephalopathy=20 kidney damage=20 DEATH due to combined liver and renal failure 2.Phallotoxins & Virotoxins=20 severe swelling of the liver=20 cessation of bile flow 3.Phallolysins=20 The phallolysins are labile against acids and heat,=20 and do not contribute to human Amanita poisoning. 4.Ibotenic acid (and possibly its derivative, muscimol)=20 central nervous system depression=20 ataxia=20 hysteria=20 hallucinations - even worse this amino acid may drive you to drink urine. J.J. Hitt (Houston, TX) jjhitt@swbell.net EOF -- | Gated by the premier Fido Technology Networks gateway . | Providing USENET, Internet Email and FTP hub facilities. | See "http://www.gryn.org" for details. --- * Origin: Self (1:2424/11.1) SEEN-BY: 12/12 218/890 1001 270/101 353/250 396/1 3615/50 51 3804/180 @PATH: 2424/11 10 12/12 396/1 3615/50 218/1001