By: Curtis Johnson To: Ben Gaines Re: Disney Boycott -=> Quoting Ben Gaines to Karl Schneider <=- KW> Do you consider the Roman Catholic Church "fundy"? Do BG> More of a cult really. BG> It may have come before, but other sects are not nessesarily based BG> on it. There was this thing called the bible, which antedates the BG> Catholic Church. ROTFL!! It's the other way around: the Catholic/Orthodox church antedates the canon you call a Bible. BTW, even now various Christian groups differ on what particular books are to be in the sacred anthology. Catholics differ from the Orthodox on the status of a couple of the Apocrypha, for instance; Coptic and Nestorians apparently never settled on a hard and fast canon. Even many Reform Protestants differed on what should make up the New Testament--Martin Luther, for instance, had severe doubts about Revelation and a couple of other other books. KS> Another hint: A cult is a religion with very little political power. BG> I feel the Catholic church is a cult for several reasons. Let's BG> look at some of the characteristics of the Chatolic Church: They feel BG> that their leader is a perfect human, incapable of error. They've BG> openly endorced genocide, torture, hate, persecution, anti BG> individualism, and racism. I'd just like to point out that the branch BG> dividians had better sounding ideas, and had done less bad stuff. The Catholic Church is a cult in exactly the same sense that *any* religion, including yours, is a cult. If you don't believe me, check out the meanings of the word in any adequate dictionary. You worship a "perfect human" who's dead--and think that's an improvement??? (BTW, Catholics worship the same dead guy.) But you are flat wrong about Catholics thinking the pope is "a perfect human, incapable of error." So wrong, that you should be furious at being lied to--and furious with yourself for not having done the least fact checking before you passed this along. Papal "infallibility" did not become official Catholic doctrine until about 1870, with the first Vatican Council. So, your comment cannot possibly apply to pre-1870 Catholics. Furthermore, it cannot apply to those Catholics who schismed off over this issue (the Old Catholics, mostly in Northern Europe). Papal infallibility comes only in pronouncing a dogma that is "ex cathedra" (IIRC, there's a couple of other tests that I forget.) The first was the Assumption of Mary, and "infallible" pronouncements have been made only half-a-dozen or less times since. As far as Catholics believing the pope to be a "perfect human being," they are quite free with their criticism. Most American and European Catholics don't like the current pope all. Regarding "genocide and racism," American Protestantism (with some exceptions) does not have a record to be proud of here. Southern Baptism, for instance, owes its start because Southern Baptists wanted to keep their slaves. David "Koresh" being the Messiah isn't loony enough for you? --- Blue Wave/DOS v2.30 [NR] * Origin: Nerve Center - Where the spine is misaligned! (1:261/1000) By: Don Martin To: Ben Gaines Re: opinions, opinions Putting his gerbil in a baggie for later, Ben Gaines said "opinions, opinions" to Curtis Johnson, adding: BG> Well, you've got to remember that atheism is just BG> another faith with it's main attracktion to most BG> being that it's easier than some other religions. CJ> * Have you considered that when it comes to the CJ> gods of all other religions, you're an atheist? (Or, CJ> like the New Testament, do you believe in them but CJ> just consider them demons?) BG> Sigh. An atheist is one who beliefs there is no God, BG> not one who doesn't belief in every God. As an atheist, I just love it when someone as ignorant as you attempts to define what atheism is. It is particularly gratifying to have that idiocy topped with a patronizing "Sigh", as if you and only you were in possession of the truth and had grown tired of explaining it, one by one, to the population of the globe. This atheist has yet to see any evidence of the existence of _any_ supernatural beings, apart from the constructs of human imagination. Have you some evidence of any? I am open to adopting a belief should some turn up. Elsewhere, you say to me: BG> Don't be fooled into believing that mindless BG> fanatic supported by dangerous cults church, etc> represent all christians. Some of us BG> are actually earnest in our belief and don't use BG> God as an excuse or a boogyman to frighten BG> children into doing their chores. DM> Naw--you use god as a basis for shotgunning DM> abortionists. BG> And all black people wanna hurt ya, right? No, not that I know of. You are the one going around with the paranoid concerns about "fanatic[s] supported by dangerous cults ", suggesting that the Catholic Church looms in your mind as a conspiracy. Apparently "black people" are in there too, in the same role. I presume from this evidence that you are a _Protestant_ loon (like Nell Gwinn, but she was not a loon). BG> Both are ignorant stereo types and what you said was BG> ironic enough to make me puke. My whole point was that BG> fanaticss and cultists abortionists> should not discredit those of us who BG> believe in God and do the right thing whenever we can BG> and not use God as an excuse for say, massacuring a BG> million people or invading Turkey. Oh, we get loons in here all the time saying this, though not all of them claim, as you do, that a conspiracy really _does_ exist (those "fanatic[s] supported by dangerous cults ") capable of doing real harm. People outside of christianity are probably less given to such conspiracy theories, though we are likely to remain wary of anyone who is capable of claiming a mandate from some supernatural power to set things right. We distrust him as a precaution against his potential for casual, unorganized violence. Given the general talk we get all the time from christians about god's "higher law" that is more important from mere human law, we find it prudent to remain wary of all such believers. As I have said often, most recently to Renee Mader, who complains as you do that we lump your buzzards into the same, dank heap with those who enforce their view of god's law with a shotgun: And when those "quiet Christians" that "just go about their business living their lives, just being" do not bother to denounce the abominations performed by holy nutcases in the Name of Gawd, then they, the "quiet Christians" share in the responsibility for those abominations. So long as they continue to repeat their unevidenced beliefs about what is and what is not "an abomination unto the Lord", they create and maintain support for their less balanced members to go out and do a little smiting. If you are concerned about living responsibly, you may wish to pay some attention to this aspect of "quiet" Christianity. Now, would you like to back up your assertion of conspiracy that the holy abominations going are promoted _only_ by those "dangerous cults " with some actual evidence? Or do you simply prefer to rave on in your native woodnotes wild without troubling your pretty little head about the wild claims you make? So what will it be? "Continuing bullshit for $500, Don!" Thought so. ... Through a Jaundiced Eye Darkly--Rheum With a View (don@balt-rehab.med.va.gov) By: Curtis Johnson To: Ben Gaines Re: opinions, opinions -=> Quoting Don Martin to Ben Gaines <=- DM> with the paranoid concerns about "fanatic[s] supported by DM> dangerous cults ", suggesting that the DM> Catholic Church looms in your mind as a conspiracy. DM> Apparently "black people" are in there too, in the same DM> role. I presume from this evidence that you are a DM> _Protestant_ loon (like Nell Gwinn, but she was not a loon). Since I doubt if you know enough history to catch Don's reference, allow me to explain. Nell Gwynn was one of Charles II's two mistresses, quite popular and a tonic to the enforced dreariness the Cromwell imposed via civil war. One of the better-known anecdotes about her is that once a mob began stoning her carriage; she ended that by crying out: "Nay, good people! 'Tis I, the _Protestant_ whore." BTW, the above is evidence that *Protestantism* is a collection of dangerous cults. --- Blue Wave/DOS v2.30 [NR]