(490)   Sat 16 Nov 96 19:04
By: Christopher Baker
To: All
Re: Re: AANEWS #200  Part 1 of 2
St:
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 * Copy of message posted via A_THEIST
 * Date: 16 Nov 96  18:56:52
 * From: Christopher Baker
 * To: All
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[part 1 of 2]

Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1996 17:42:43 -0700
from: AMERICAN.ATHEISTS@listserv.direct.net
Subject: [Atheist] AANEWS for November 15, 1996 (Nightowl Edition)
Sender: owner-aanews@listserv.direct.net
Reply-To: aanews@listserv.atheists.org,
AMERICAN.ATHEISTS@listserv.direct.net

        A M E R I C A N   A T H E I S T S
     nnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn
     nnnnnnnnnn   AANEWS   nnnnnnnnnn
     #200 uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu 11/15/96 (Nightowl Edition)
               http://www.atheists.org
            e-mail: aanews@atheists.org
                    ftp.atheists.org

   In This Issue...
   * Read Our Lips, Ann Landers... We're NOT A Religion.
   * Interfaith Bugaboo ~ Assisted Suicide
   * TheistWatch
   * About This List...


   ''FASCINATING FACTS'' CONCEAL FACTS, PROMPT ATHEIST RESPONSES

   Ann Landers a spokesperson for Atheism?
   It's probably too good to be true, of course, but the popular
advice writer's column which appeared earlier this week in newspapers
throughout the nation carried some interesting "facts" about religion
-- some obvious and boring, others subtle and requiring some real
thought to appreciate.
   It also prompted some responses from Atheists.
   Landers asked readers: "Do you have any idea when your religion was
founded and by whom?"  She then presented a list of religious beliefs
ranging from Buddhism and Catholicism to Unitarian, Mormon and Jewish.
Nineteen religions were listed, a roll call which managed to cover
most of the "believer" waterfront.
   But it's what Landers included at the end of her column which has
provoked some stimulating responses.
   "If you are an agnostic, you probably profess an uncertainty..."
about God, she wrote.  She closed her "Fascinating Facts" column by
noting: "If you are an atheist, you do not believe in the existence of
God or any other higher power."  She adds that "This country's best-
known Atheist, Madalyn Murray O'Hair, has not been seen or heard from
in more than a year.  According to her son, she has disappeared
without a trace."
   The mention of Atheism and Madalyn O'Hair strikes many of us as
gratuitous at best.  In descriptions of religious groups, for
instance, Landers doesn't note that Martin Luther claimed to have
"wrestled" with the devil, or that Mormon founder Joseph Smith was
either a hallucinating psychotic or a peddler of doctrinal snake oil.
In fact, none of the founders of religions mentioned in Landers'
column do not have anything  hostile or critical said about them --nor
are any critics of those respective religions quoted or mentioned.
There is, of course, the very valid objection that Atheism (or even
agnosticism) is not a religion or a religious "belief" system.  In
this respect, Landers displays not only her ignorance of the subject
matter, but the postmodernist penchant to obliterate critical
epistemological distinctions and exercise a more precise rigor with
terms.  But what Ms.  Landers seems to ignore is that her column is,
in a sense, a good argument on behalf of Atheism and religious
skepticism.
                        Many Gods ~ Many Beliefs

   It was a favorite argument of Madalyn Murray O'Hair that religious
belief was, for most people, an accident -- a function of time,
geography and unquestioned and unexamined cultural conditions.  Four
thousand years ago, for instance, people believed in ancient deities,
erecting temples and monuments, devising propitiatory prayers, and
indoctrinating their offspring in the teachings of their "true"
religion.  Evidently, these people "believed" in their respective god
or gods with much the same fervor the most devoted Catholic, or Hindu,
or Muslim or Jew does in contemporary times.  What distinguishes the
ancients from contemporary religionists are circumstances of time and
geography.  A person born millennia ago, for instance, might have
"believed" in Ra, or Zeus, or Quetzelqoatl; today, Christians, Jews
and other reject such gods in favor of their own.  No wonder that
philosopher Bertrand Russell mused that all believers were, in a
sense, "99% atheists" rejecting hundreds of different gods which the
human imagination has conjured throughout history -- all, save for
their own.  Today, the veritable "belief bazaar" poses a similar
dilemma for religious believers.  The different religious systems
listed by Ann Landers would suggest that even today believers cannot
seem to agree on whose particular god is the "true" deity (let alone
deal with the question of whether or not there is ANY such deity!),
how this god is to be conceived, worshipped and propitiated, and whose
teachings about this elusive deity are to be considered accurate.

                           An Atheist Objects

   American Atheist activist Don Hirschberg of Arkansas addressed his
concerns in a letter sent earlier this week to Ann Landers...

   Dear Ms. Landers,
   Calling Atheism a religion is like calling bald a hair color.
   Regarding your column about the founding of religions, I am
disappointed to see that you included atheists on your list as if we
were a religion.  Atheism is in no sense a religion.
   As to Madalyn Murray O'Hair's disappearance, to mention her son
(William) as the source of that news is really an outrage.  William
has neither spoken with nor seen his mother in many years.  Her other
son, Jon Garth, and her adopted daughter, Robin (the biological
daughter of William) disappeared at the same time.  All three were for
years officers and key leaders of American Atheists, based in Austin,
Texas.  The organization continues to flourish.  It is incorrect and
misleading to define an atheist as one who does not believe in god or
gods.  Such a definition implies that god(s) exist but that atheists
are just too perverse or dumb or wicked to believe.  Let us define
ourselves: Atheists deny the existence of god(s).
   Sincerely,
   Don Hirschberg
   Arkansas
                                   **

   Don's letter to Ann Landers evoked some interested debate on the
aachat list; but his point remains well taken -- listing Atheism (or
even agnosticism) as a religion implies that we are, after all, basing
our view of the world on faith -- just like Catholics, Buddhists,
Hindus and others.  In the postmodernist world, such foolishness
reminds us of a comment made in connection with Allan Sokol's hoax
which appeared in an issue of the journal "Social Text."  To
paraphrase: not all views of the world  are equally valid.  The image
projected on a plane's radar screen is far, far more than "just
another interpretation" of reality.

                                   *

          CATHOLIC, PROTESTANT, MUSLIM OFFICIAL TAKE ON NEW FOE
                     ~~ DOCTOR ASSISTED SUICIDE

   In what one news service described as "an unprecedented interfaith
partnership," the National Conference of Catholic Bishops has
announced an alliance with Protestant denominations and Islamic
leaders to challenge doctor assisted suicide.  A statement was
released earlier this week from the NCCB meeting in Washington, D.C.
and noted that the coalition of religious leaders had already
submitted legal briefs in two cases pending before the U.S. Supreme
Court.  Inman Abdullah El-Amin, a spokesman for the Muslim Center in
Detroit, praised the interfaith effort saying "This is the only way we
can remake this world into a better place, by inviting all people of
God to come together against our common enemies." He added that "Allah
says in the Koran that all life is sacred.  Suicide is forbidden.  We
do not give ourselves life and we do not legitimately have the power
to take our own lives." Meanwhile, an attorney for the Bishop's
Conference told Knight-Ridder news service that "The reason that our
co-signers are so important is they show the court that our briefs
cannot simply be shifted to the bottom of the stack of arguments as
just a Catholic opinion."
   One signer of the declaration was Chicago Cardinal Joseph Bernadin
who died earlier this week, hours after one brief was submitted by
religious authorities through the Catholic Health Association of
America.  Echoing the church's doctrinal opposition to abortion,
Bernardin declared that "Our legal and ethical tradition has held
consistently that suicide, assisted suicide and euthanasia are wrong
because they involve a direct attack on innocent human life."
   At stake for the Supreme Court is whether or not the Constitution
guarantees any "right to die" which is being violated by various state
laws banning doctor-assisted suicide.  Two federal appeals courts have
already struck down such laws in Washington state and New York.  Forty
states currently impose criminal penalties on those who assist people
in committing suicide.

                 A "Dilemma" Or Self-Serving Interest?

   The involvement of the Catholic Health Association -- a church
"trade group" representing the lucrative tax-exempt, "non-profit"
healthcare network of Catholic hospitals -- is significant.  Attorney
James Geoly who represents the CHA and wrote one of the briefs to the
high court said that the group is interested in the problem since
Catholic hospitals will allegedly face a dilemma if the court
recognizes some form of doctor-assisted suicide.  The president of the
CHA, John Curley, Jr. told reporters that any right to die would
"pollute the relationship between health-care providers and their most
vulnerable patients: the elderly, those with disabilities, and the
terminally ill."

 [end part 1 of 2]

  - DB B2300sl/001027
 @ Origin: Rights On!-Host/Moderator of A_THEIST-Edgewater_FL_USA (1:18/14)
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------------------------------------------------------------------------------
(491)   Sat 16 Nov 96 19:05
By: Christopher Baker
To: All
Re: Re: AANEWS #200  Part 2 of 2
St:
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
@EID:3165 217098a0
@MSGID: 1:18/14 328E56B1
@PID: GenMsg 5.00 [0002]
@Date: 17 Nov 96 00:05:05 UTC
 * Copy of message posted via A_THEIST
 * Date: 16 Nov 96  18:57:44
 * From: Christopher Baker
 * To: All
 * Message text was not edited!

[part 2 of 2]

   But along with moral or theological considerations, there is the
more practical issue of economics.  Those persons facing terminal
illness can often exhaust whatever financial resources they have, then
qualify for government funding.  Indeed, the dilemma of AIDS patients
stimulated the growth of so-called "viatical settlements" which, while
providing money for care, also guaranteed payment to care providers.
Either way, the longer people live the more money some health care
institutions may end up making.  Other participants in this coalition
include the Southern Baptist Convention, the Lutheran Church, National
Association of Evangelicals, and the American Muslim Council.
   Meanwhile, the attorney for assisted-suicide advocate Dr. Jack
Kevorkian told the Detroit Free Press that both he and his client
reject the religious arguments against a right-to-die.  Geoffrey
Fieger added: "If they want to inflict suffering on their followers,
then that's fine.  But they shouldn't inflict their religious precepts
on others."
                                  **

                       THEISTWATCH SHORT SHOTS

   As Atheists, we simply do not accept the proposition that by virtue
of being religious leaders, any assortment of priests, bishops,
mullahs, inmans, ministers and other conjurers possess some unique
wisdom and insight into the world, or how society ought to be
organized, or how others should lead their lives.  We question, for
instance, whether the Catholic Bishops are qualified as economists and
social planners, or whether some geriatric, presumably celibate male
pope (or his Islamic comrades in Tehran or Kabul) have any business
telling women what they may do with their bodies.
   And for once, we've got some support from an unlikely quarter --
namely, the Archbishop of Canterbury.  Dr. George Carey has issued a
pre-election warning to his fellow men o' the collar about what the
London Times described as "the dangers of claiming special authority
for their political and economic questions."  Said the head-guru of
the Church of England: "Where the Church seeks to make pronouncements
as an institution, it should not muddle up indiscriminately
pronouncements about theological and moral ends and the fruits of
pastoral experience, on one hand, about how best to achieve particular
effects on the other."
   Unfortunately, Carey doesn't always practice what he preaches.  But
clerics on both sides of the Atlantic should listen when he
admonishes: "It especially behooves church people to avoid apparent
self-righteousness when contributing to political debate."

                                 **

   Is it another case of "Do as I say, not as I do"?
   Last evening, it was learned that an official with the Mormon
Church whose radio rants decried the loss of "family values" and
denounced kiddie molestation was himself busted over allegations of
sodomy with a 14-year old girl.  The host of the Latter-day Saint's
program "Times and Seasons" was booked into the slammer after the
alleged victim complained to a counselor.  A police spokesman said "He
was helping her with her modeling.  He was helping her doing voice-
overs and taking photographs...Of course, it started off innocent and
there was no problems (sic) until the other night." According to
reports in the Washington Post and Salt Lake City station KTVX, the
church official allegedly took the victim to a parking lot behind a
radio station "where he showed her pornography, took pictures of her
in her underwear and then told her to perform oral sex."

                                  **

   In Maryland, religious groups -- including the parochial school
system --are already getting de facto what they cannot get de jure,
namely, more and more public funding.  Several counties in that state
are already spending close to $2 million per year to ferry 3,700
students to private (often religious) schools; and according to the
Washington Post, "Church officials want Maryland to follow more than
two dozen other states in spending public money to pay for things such
as transportation, non-religious textbooks and technology in private
schools."  A pressure campaign by the Maryland Catholic Conference
(described as a "policy and outreach arm of the church) has resulted
in nearly 4,000 letters of support coming into the office of Governor
Parris Glendening -- whose own son happens to attend a Catholic high
school.  The President of the Maryland State Teachers Association told
The Post "This could have the effect of further diluting resources
available for public school students."  The paper adds that so far, 28
states subsidize private and religious schools with transportation for
students, and 17 cover textbook expenses.

                                  **

   What happens when there is an "established", official religion and
no separation of church and state?  Well, in addition to having "One
Nation Under God," you have a situation where civil rights -- even for
minority religious believers -- are non-existent.  Amnesty
International revealed yesterday that a religious court in the United
Arab Emirates has sentence a Lebanese Christian to 39 lashes of the
whip and a year in jail for the travesty and outrage of marrying an
Islamic woman.  The man was purportedly tortured following his arrest
last December, and the marriage nullified.  According to news reports,
the whipping is to be administered tomorrow.  Outrages such as this
have caught the interest of some Johnny-Come-Lately types to the cause
of civil libertarianism and human rights, namely, the evangelical
Christian community in the United States.  No doubt this incident in
the Emirates will be part of the pressure on the U.S. government to
defend the "right of religious believers" in the so-called "10-40
Window," that part of the world which American proselytizers have
targeted for evangelization, and which represents the bulk of the
globe's Muslim population.
   But as usual, the religionists have it all backwards.  As this
brutal UAE case shows, this isn't about "religious rights" -- it has
everything to do with the ills of instituting and establishing an
"official" religion and not separating church and state.

                                  **

   We received some timely comments from "Gary" on the aachat-list
which readers may enjoy...
   "I read recently that Cardinal Bernardin has stated that his cancer
was 'a gift from God.' Now if this god gives out these kinds of gifts,
keep him away from me.  If Bernardin really believed this then, why
was he going through chemotherapy to get rid of 'god's gift'?
   "And in the same article it seems that Bernardin was going through
chemo with a woman who also had cancer.  This woman's cancer wasn't
cured and when she became even more ill, Cardinal Bernardin spoke with
her saying to put her life in god's hands now.  She died two days
later.  First off, I have to wonder why they didn't put their lives in
god's hand before the chemotherapy.  It wasn't until medicine couldn't
cure them that they turned to their god.  Secondly, why do Christians
even bother to seek out medical help?  If this heaven is such a great
place why do they keep putting-off going there?"

                                  **

   Bill Moyers, a Baptist minister, former White House official, and
lately a peddler of mythos and pop-culture mysticism, has told his
fellow Southern Baptists that they are clinging to an "alien ideology"
in the form of biblical literalism.  Speaking at the Baptist General
Convention in Texas, Moyers blasted the sect's conservative faction
(which not only controls the church but seems to reflect most of the
sentiment within the SBC), and criticized it for promoting a belief
that is "less a set of ideas than it is a pathological distemper, a
militant anger over the face that the universe is not closed and life
is not static."  He also told his audience that "We face a new
religious reality out there."
   Maybe so -- but Moyers and his biblical literalist audience are
simply different sides of the same coin.  Moyer's "warm and fuzzy"
explorations into the postmodernist twilight zone of credulity are not
more substantive than the illusory rantings of a berserk
fundamentalist fanatic.  How's THAT for "archetypical" thinking, Bill?

                                  **
About This List...
   AANEWS is a free service from American Atheists, a nationwide
movement founded by Madalyn Murray O'Hair for the advancement of
Atheism, and the total, absolute separation of government and
religion.  For more information about American Atheists, send mail to
info@atheists.org and include your name and postal address.  Or, check
out our web site at http://www.atheists.org, or download from our ftp
site, ftp.atheists.org.
   You may forward, post or quote from this dispatch, provided that
appropriate credit is given to aanews and American Atheists.  For
subscribe/unsubscribe information, send mail to aanews-
request@listserv.atheists.org and put "info aanews" (minus the
quotation marks, please) in the message body.  Edited and written by
Conrad F. Goeringer, The LISTMASTER (cg@atheists.org).  Internet
Representative for American Atheists is Margie Wait,
irep@atheists.org.

 [end part 2 of 2]

  - DB B2300sl/001027
 @ Origin: Rights On!-Host/Moderator of A_THEIST-Edgewater_FL_USA (1:18/14)
@PATH: 18/14


--- GenMsg [0002] (cbaker84@digital.net)
 * Origin: Rights On! - Religion Free Always! - Edgewater_FL_USA (1:18/14)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 18/14 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 114/262 271 124/1 130/1
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