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		       The REALL News

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The official newsletter of the Rational Examination Association
		      of Lincoln Land

Volume 3, Number 11                                November 1995

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Electronic Version

If you like what you see, please help us continue by sending
in a subscription.  See the end of newsletter for details.
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In This Issue:

From the Editor -- Bob Ladendorf
From the Chairman -- David Bloomberg
Skybald -- Martin Kottmeyer
REALLity Check -- David Bloomberg

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Purpose:
The Rational Examination Association of Lincoln Land (REALL)
is a non-profit educational and scientific organization.  It is
dedicated to the development of rational thinking and the application
of the scientific method toward claims of the paranormal and fringe-
science phenomena.

REALL shall conduct research, convene meetings, publish a newsletter,
and disseminate information to its members and the general public.
Its primary geographic region of coverage is central Illinois.

REALL subscribes to the premise that the scientific method is the
most reliable and self-correcting system for obtaining knowledge
about the world and universe.  REALL not not reject paranormal claims
on a priori grounds, but rather is committed to objective, though
critical, inquiry.

_The REALL News_ is its official newsletter.

Membership information is provided elsewhere in this newsletter.

Board of Directors:  Chairman, David Bloomberg; Assistant Chairman,
Prof. Ron Larkin; Secretary-Treasurer, Kevin Brown; Newsletter
Editor, Bob Ladendorf; At-Large Members, Prof. Steve Egger, Wally
Hartshorn, and Frank Mazo.

Editorial Board:  Bob Ladendorf (Newsletter Editor), David Bloomberg
(electronic version editor), (one vacancy).

REALL
P.O. Box 20302
Springfield, IL 62708

Unless stated otherwise, permission is granted to other skeptic
organizations to reprint articles from _The REALL News_ as long
as proper credit is given.  REALL also requests that you send
copies of your newsletters that reprint our articles to the
above address.

The views expressed in these articles are the views of the individual
authors and do not necessarily represent the views of REALL.

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                         From the Editor
                        -- Bob Ladendorf

   This month, our veteran writer, Martin Kottmeyer, takes
a critical look at one of the major alien
sightings/abductions that allegedly took place in the
Midwest. As always, he provides provocative explanations of
supposed paranormal encounters.
   As we approach the New Year and the end of the third
year of REALL's existence, I wanted to take a moment to
thank all our supporters and fellow skeptics who strive for
the truth (corny as that might sound). On the horizon, we
plan to redesign _The REALL News_ and to include more
graphics and short digest news pieces. If you have any
suggestions about what you would like to see in the
newsletter, write or e-mail me at the addresses below.
   For those interested in how I have put together _The
REALL News_, I have produced it on my little old Macintosh
Classic using a _Publish It! Easy_ program that I bought for
about $25! While they have been reliable over the years, I
plan to modernize my publishing capabilities in the near
future.
   Happy Holidays!

					/s/ Bob Ladendorf

        	==============================

REALL E-mail Contacts:

Bob Ladendorf:  robertcl49@aol.com (NOTE: 1st 8 are letters)

David Bloomberg:  david.bloomberg@f2112.n2430.z1.fidonet.org

        	==============================

                        From the Chairman
                       -- David Bloomberg

   As I mentioned last month, our regular (first Tuesday)
meeting at the library for December was bumped, and I noted
that we may have a lunch meeting instead. Since several
members let me know that they thought this was a good idea,
we are doing just that. The meeting will be Saturday,
December 9, at 11 a.m., at Shakey's Pizza & Buffet (see back
page). I encourage everybody who make it to come out, since
we will be discussing not only the usual gamut of paranormal
and fringe science topics, but also (and perhaps more
importantly) REALL's plans for 1996 and beyond. Please come
and give us your ideas and opinions!

   In other, more general, news, I hope everybody had a
good Thanksgiving. Even with the rest of the holidays coming
up, we expect to get an issue of the newsletter to you by
the end of December, since our first 1996 meeting will put
us back on our regular schedule of the first Tuesday of the
month -- Tuesday, Jan. 2, at 7 p.m. at the library. The topic
has yet to be determined, so if you have an idea, please
feel free to let us know (if, for some reason, you can't
make it to the lunch meeting to share your ideas, please
feel free to drop us a line or give us a call). We're
currently working out plans with several speakers for
upcoming months, including one who is coming all the way
from Germany just to talk to us (ok, ok, he's not really
coming just to talk to us, but he did go out of his way to
let us know he'd be around and would be happy to give us
some of his time). You'll hear more about these speakers as
we finalize the dates and locations.

   On a somewhat different topic, let me talk to you a
little bit about the newsletter. You might have noticed that
recently we've had a lot of articles written by yours truly.
While I enjoy writing such articles, I've begun to fall
behind. To be precise, I'm currently working on at least
three full articles (remember that Greta Alexander article I
mentioned a couple months ago?) plus smaller bits for
inclusion in upcoming "REALLity Check" columns. I was
recently able to convince one loyal member to write
something about another topic I was otherwise going to have
to tackle, and I'd like to see other members also get
involved.
   This past year has seen articles from several members
who had not written any previously, and I'd like that trend
to continue. If you are interested in a topic that relates
to REALL, by all means please feel free to submit an
article! If you don't know where to begin, contact me and I
might be able to get you a starting point (heck, I might
have something here that's been put on the back burner
because I don't have the time and/or knowledge to write
about it.) Articles can be anything from a book review of a
recent skeptical (or not-so-skeptical) tome you've recently
read (even if it's an older book, REALL members might not
know about it) to a general article on any number of topics.
Heck, even if it's nothing more than a letter to the editor,
we enjoy hearing from our members!

					/s/ David Bloomberg

		==============================

                           SKYBALD

            Some Comments on the Goodland, Kansas
            Double Abduction of November 7, 1989

                     by Martin Kottmeyer

   John S. Carpenter has written up this case in at least
two papers. The first was "Double Abduction Case:
Correlation of Hypnosis Data" and appeared in the _Journal
of UFO Studies_, new series # 3 (1991) pp. 91-114. The
second was "Investigating and Correlating Simultaneous
Abductions" and was delivered at the Abduction Study
Conference held at M.I.T. June 13-17, 1992, and recently
published in Andrea Pritchard, et. al. _Alien Discussions_
(North Cambridge Press, 1994, pp. 246-54). The two
individuals involved are referred to by the pseudonyms of
"Susan" and "Jennifer." It has since been revealed that
"Susan" is really Skye Ambrose. Though the pseudonyms will
be retained in this discussion for convenience, I felt it
worth mentioning for the benefit of people like myself who
first became aware of the case from an appearance on
television where Skye used her own name. The poetry of an
UFO percipient being named Skye sticks in the mind.
   Briefly, the story is that Susan and Jennifer were
returning home to St. Louis from a conference (nature
undisclosed) in Aspen, Colorado when, outside Flagler,
Colorado around 11:40 p.m., they noticed a bright object
ahead of them in the east, very high up and slightly to the
south. They observed the object to be flashing, showing
colored lights on it, and making occasional little
movements. They also noticed the sudden appearance of many
smaller green lights near the brighter UFO. They watched
this for nearly an hour, pulling over their car several
times to get a better look with the lights off.
   After 12:40 a.m. a ball of light suddenly descended to
within a hundred feet of their vehicle. It hovered in a
field to their right. Below the light appeared a V-shaped
"cone" of "fluffy" white light which reached toward the
ground with colored rays of pastel pink, blue, and lavender.
These beams established the edge of the cone and they
criss-crossed slightly at the bottom point. They also noted
"black waves" through the lower part of the car's
windshields reminiscent of heat waves on the horizon of a
desert highway. They felt a rush of adrenaline and pulled
back onto the highway. They subsequently both felt suddenly
exhausted and irritable with a desire for silence. Stopping
at a rest area farther along they could still see the bright
object. They arrived at their motel destination in Goodland,
Kansas, soon after at 2:30 a.m.
    In due course it was determined that the 72-mile drive
to Goodland from Flagler took three hours. Thus rose the
specter of missing time and a potential alien abduction.
Hypnosis was performed yielding abduction stories from both
UFO witnesses. Various correlations between their
hypnotically-derived testimonies were tallied up and found
to be impressive. Additionally, some details matched obscure
bits of other abduction accounts. Carpenter concluded the
case argued for the "bizarre reality" of the UF0 enigma.
M.I.T. conferees offered no on-the-spot criticisms of the
case. Comment fell along the lines of such double abductions
as this being enormously important and extremely common.
C.D.B. Bryan devoted a dozen pages of his account of the
M.I.T. conference -- _Close Encounters of the 4th Kind_ --
to popularizing the case. He asks how does one explain it?
(p. 140.) Fair question, but it may be answerable. The
Goodman, Kansas, case almost has the air of nostalgia about
it, a throwback to an earlier time when abductees still had
conscious recall of having encountered a UFO before they had
their regressions. I'm not forgetting Allagash and Gulf
Breeze, but it still seems bedroom visitations are more the
norm nowadays. It is nice to be reminded that alien
nightmares and regression tales still have their ties to the
UF0 phenomenon proper, but this is a double-edged sword. UF0
sightings were always tricky things. As investigators like
Allan Hendry used to admit, upwards of 90 percent of
sightings were explicable in prosaic terms. They tended to
involve misinterpretations of things like stars, advertising
planes, balloons, and such.
   It is an inevitable question to wonder if the Goodman,
Kansas, sighting might have a prosaic solution. This is
especially so because the initial bright object was seen for
close to an hour and that is usually a danger flag that a
star or planet is being mistaken for something more
mysterious. Even worse, Carpenter admits there were no other
UFO reports in that part of Kansas at that time despite the
fact it is described as being high up in the sky. This doubt
elevates to practical certainty when one checks the star
chart for the evening and learns that high up in the east
and slightly to the south was sitting Jupiter shining at
magnitude -2.6, brighter than anything else except the first
quarter moon down near the horizon. Carpenter realizes
Jupiter is a possibility but dismisses it with a peculiar
remark. He said, "It was only half as bright as Venus (-4.4)
and less likely to draw as much attention." What renders the
comment ridiculous is that Venus had set hours earlier and
was not around for visual comparison. A magnitude of -2.6
would impress any amateur astronomer as unusually bright and
there are ample examples of misinterpretations involving
lesser magnitude objects than this.
   Carpenter correctly grants the flashing lights, the
colors, and little motions are interpretable as the effects
of scintillation and autokinesis, but states the witnesses
are adamant the bright UF0 was not a star and that it paced
their car. Pacing however is also a common illusion with
stars seen from moving objects. (Allan Hendry, _The UF0
Handbook_, Doubleday, 1979, p.27.) The smaller green lights
seen next to the main object likely include stars like
Castor and Pollux which were located very near Jupiter that
evening. The green color may, but not necessarily, be from
green tinting commonly part of car windshields.
   I suspect the real main reason Carpenter rejects the
involvement of Jupiter despite the clear match in position
is that he considers the part of the experience involving
the close encounter in the field with a light bearing the
cone and emitting "black waves" as being with the same
stimulus. Jupiter could not be responsible for those
phenomena. But something else could have. It was Susan's
description of the cone when I saw her on television which
first made me suspect this was not a real alien experience.
   I, too, had once been witness to an unexpected spectacle
of a brilliant white light from which a cone-shaped beam
extended to the ground. Unlike Susan I even saw a human
figure silhouetted against the cone apparently inspecting or
attempting repairs on his craft. The craft however, in my
case, had been of very terrestrial design. It was a
corn-picker.
   The headlight often rides about 10 feet above the ground
and partially points down to illuminate the gathering
mechanism so the driver can guide the picker down the rows
of corn. Seen from the front most of the picker is simply
invisible because it is night and the glare of the light
hides all but the gathering header. Even that is not fully
seen, the light only reflects off the cylindrical surface
below the light and off the nose in front. The nose floats
along the ground to pick up any corn plants that have fallen
over due to wind or soft ground. I suspect the sense of
intersection arises from the structure of the nose which is
sometimes reinforced by extra metal at the tip, also the
nose as a whole does not extend straight out from the unit
but forms a shallower angle and may thus reflect more light.
The fluffy nature of the cone of light may be due either to
light reflecting off the convex curve of the gatherer or to
the cloud of dust and air-borne debris kicked up by the
picker when it is moving. The only thing that I wondered
after I heard Susan's experience was whether it happened at
the right time of year.
   Did it happen during corn harvest season? Answer: Yes,
November 7th is well within the normal limits of corn
harvest season which tends to run mid-October to
mid-November.
   There is still, however, the matter of that enigmatic
detail of the "black waves" on the windshields during the
close encounter. Actually, they don't seem particularly
mysterious to me. Anyone who regularly drives at night in
sparsely trafficked rural areas is familiar with this
effect. When a bright enough point of light forms a screen
of light on the windshield, heat currents and small-scale
air turbulence will form silhouettes on it. As one speeds up
or slows down the car, the amount of turbulence alters in
response. It is an optical effect which is utilized in
schlieren photography and helps aeronautics researchers
study turbulence effects and shock patterns formed by design
changes in planes and rockets. Whether Jennifer and Susan
were unfamiliar with this phenomenon because of more urban
habits or because their adrenaline rush fogged their
thinking can be speculated on, but the issue is probably
unimportant.
    As for the missing time in this sequence of events, my
guess is that it was eaten up in those several occasions
Susan and Jennifer stopped to get a better look at the UFO.
How long they gazed at Jupiter or how much conversation they
engaged in is difficult to guess at. Might they have lost
track of time talking about the conference they had been to
or about their lives in general? Probably the most damning
consideration is inadvertently offered by Carpenter himself.
He observes that Susan mistakenly thought an hour-and-a-half
hypnosis session only took 15 minutes. Jennifer thought her
session also took 15 minutes, but it was actually two-and-a-
half hours long. Given such proven errors in their time
sense, what credence can be given to whatever self-estimates
of the length of their several stops they gave?
   Add it all up and we get a sighting event which is
interpretable in entirely prosaic terms. To prefer this
interpretation over the assumption of alien involvement, a
person does not even need to invoke Occam's Razor. The
absence of corroborative witnesses to this event which
lasted up to three hours and a UFO high up in a clear night
sky argues against a hard reality and for some kind of
mistaken interpretation. The assumption of alien
intelligence falters with an obvious question: Why would
they dawdle around for so long? An intelligently guided
operation would probably have the aliens come straight down,
do their stuff, and leave. Why would they hesitate for over
an hour? Why would they hang around afterwards?
   Yet what of those hypnosis sessions and those 42
correlations? There indeed is the paradox. The rest of the
case looks so nicely handled, so exemplary. How can Susan
and Jennifer's accounts match so well if they are as
illusory as the sighting event which triggered them?
   Carpenter points out both women deny any familiarity
with the subject of UFOs, never read books or saw films
about them. He even points to certain details like the
entities being too tall and the abductees not being nude as
departing from publicized norms. This is admittedly a little
bit "Heads I win, tails you lose" -- such departures should
argue against the reality of the accounts. The point however
remains. The numerous correlations are puzzling if they are
as ufologically virginal as they profess to be.
   It is likely significant that the movie _Communion_ was
scheduled to open on November 10th, three days after the
sighting event, but before the hypnosis sessions that same
month on the 12th and 24th. (_MUFON UFO Journal_ #259,
November 1989, p. 27) There are usually publicity blitzes
associated with such openings and it would be expected there
had been television and radio spots about Strieber and other
abductees, both nationally and locally. Susan and Jennifer's
account repeat a number of details seen in Strieber's
personal account.
   The Gray in Susan's drawing seems basically the same as
Strieber's. The face is triangular. The eyes are large,
tilted and completely black. The body is thin. The 5 1/2
foot height is only slightly taller than Strieber's Gray
which he reported as 5 feet tall. Susan and Jennifer descend
on floating platforms which, though rarely seen in accounts
generally, is consistent with Strieber's transport on a
magical palette (_Communion_, p.14). Susan and Jennifer both
describe an auditorium or operating theater with tiers of
seating which, again, is rare generally, but appears in
Strieber's account (_Communion_, p. 20). Other details in
their accounts do not point to Strieber specifically. Things
like gliding movements by the entities and nasal implanting
and wraparound eyes are found in many accounts, but do not
speak well for the reality of the experience for they have
cultural origins (see my papers "Curse of the Space
Mummies," "The Alien Booger Menace," and "The Eyes that
Spoke" in various issue of _The REALL News_). Other
correlations like the sparkly diamond/glass mushroom and the
ankle strap/stirrup are not so readily explained, but may
potentially be explicable if the two ladies both saw a
program involving lesser known abductees put together during
the _Communion_ run. Though this may be a researchable
avenue, it would probably require both resources and luck. I
prefer to leave this loose end dangle for I question the
effort. Anyone still undecided as to whether this case has
enormous importance in the face of the considerations
already offered probably will be unswayed by additional
effort.
   Carpenter would likely, in counterpoint to these
evidences of influence, reiterate his claim that the case
also presents details which correlate with details in other
cases that had never had media exposure. In his _Journal_
paper he speaks of the sucker fingers described by Jennifer
as an example. This claim deserves an article to itself and,
indeed, it has already been done: my paper "Alien Suckers,"
_The REALL News_, vol. 2, #2 (February, 1994) pp. 1,3,10. I
will simply say here, UFO virginity can remain unsullied by
this detail.
   There doesn't seem to be any larger implications worth
noting that are new. It basically comes down to one more
case with a prosaic ending. Nobody said it was the case of
the century. Carpenter's assessment was fairly tame and
suggested to me he felt he was adding one more board to
building the case for abductions as real. I, thus, will
regard this as one more board in building the case against.

{Editor's Note: The definition of "skybald" -- a worthless 
 one, a "good for nothing."}

[Martin Kottmeyer is a frequent contributor to _The REALL News_.]

		==============================

                       REALLity Check
                     by David Bloomberg

                     $ubliminal Me$$age$

   _CBS News_ (11/8) with Dan Rather had a short feature on
subliminals. Yes, that's right -- another subject that we
figured had died a while ago rears its nonsensical head yet
again. So what if scientific tests have shown "subliminal
messages" to have no effect? So what if there isn't any
positive evidence on their side? They have personal
anecdotes!
   The story began with interviews of a few people who are
making money off of subliminals -- by selling tapes, video
games and whatnot. They tell us that the subliminals use
high technology methods to bypass the senses and go straight
to the brain. No, I haven't figured that one out either.
   Next, they continued discussing the subject as if it
were scientifically valid and worried about the
possibilities of using this technology for mind control. Of
course, if the technology doesn't actually do anything . . .
   Finally, they got around to mentioning the old "Eat
popcorn" hoax (where a theater owner claimed to have flashed
that phrase during movies and said his sales went up _ but
it was later found that the entire thing was a hoax) and
talked to a guy who said that nobody has proven that
subliminal messages work. Ah, finally, a scientific skeptic,
right? Wrong. This guy sells subliminals, too. He puts
supposedly subliminal church music on the Muzak tracks
played in some department stores, claiming that this puts
people in a holier state of mind (or something like that),
which makes them less likely to shoplift. Essentially, his
claim boils down to:  Their subliminals don't work, but mine
do. Sounds remarkably similar to the claims we often hear
from psychics and the like: That other guy is a fake, but
I'm the real thing.
   Unfortunately for all of them, none has proven their
case yet.

                     Wenatchee Witchhunt

   On the same night, _Dateline NBC_ devoted almost its
entire hour to looking at claims of a huge child abuse
conspiracy in Wenatchee, Washington. Unfortunately, the
entire story should seem unsettlingly familiar to longtime
readers of this newsletter and those familiar with the false
memory problem.
   The basic story is that the police have arrested almost
40 people and charged them with a variety of sex crimes
against children. These charges all stem from the original
claims of one young girl, who just happens to be the foster
child of the police officer (Det. Perez) who "found" this
huge conspiracy -- a conspiracy that supposedly engaged in
these activities for many years before this detective was
rotated into the sex crimes department. Strangely enough,
according to the show, many of the people who were arrested
had recently questioned the methods of the investigation.
   To summarize the entire story here is difficult, but
I'll do my best. This all began with the arrest of about 10
adults, most of whom were retarded, illiterate or "low-
functioning." All of these either plead guilty or no
contest, and so the accusing children were never cross-
examined (it seems likely that one of the first accused did,
in fact, molest a child, but that was not addressed in much
detail). One who confessed has a history of psychological
problems and recanted the very next day, saying she had been
bullied into her confession. However, that confession is
still being used in trials against other supposed sex ring
members. From then on, the investigation/persecution grew
almost exponentially, in much the way the Salem witch trials
did.
   The star witness, D.E., a 10-year-old girl who is Det.
Perez's foster child, took him on a tour of the town,
pointing out houses that were supposedly used in the huge
sex ring. One of those houses belonged to a man who has
helped many foster children over the years. D.E. claimed he
would have the other sex-ring members over, would dismantle
the bunk beds to make them singles, and would line up all
the foster girls to have sex with all the adults. The
problem is that _Dateline_ talked to a number of the girls
who were at his house when all of this was supposedly
occurring, and they say none of it ever happened. In fact,
they accuse D.E. of being a liar and say she has falsely
accused others of sex crimes in the past.
   Speaking of false accusations, another girl accused her
foster father of being part of this sex ring, but the next
day told a social worker that she was pressured by the
detective and had lied to him. When the social worker
reported this, he was arrested for tampering with a witness,
and later became wanted for supposedly being part of this
sex ring!
   What about the evidence? Surely this detective couldn't
arrest all these people without evidence, right? Wrong. As
previously noted, the charges are all based on the word of a
couple young girls, including those who have made false
accusations in the past. In fact, Det. Perez didn't even
tape his interviews with the girls; he just wrote down some
notes several days later.
   Perez's methods here seem to leave something to be
desired. As has been shown in several studies, if you
repeatedly question a child about something that never
happened, the child may eventually falsely claim it did,
indeed, happen. I am, frankly, somewhat surprised that this
type of trial is still going on today. But it shows that
just because we think a subject has been adequately
explained doesn't mean others won't ignore that explanation.
   There is some good news here. When one of the accused
made it to trial, the jury was astonished at the lack of
evidence presented, and acquitted the defendant almost
immediately. The accusing girl couldn't give any details or
descriptions, didn't know the supposed crime scene, etc. In
response, the prosecutors dropped other charges in another
case, but they still apparently decided to ignore reality
and continued on with other cases. Indeed, another jury
convicted a poor, non-English speaking Mexican who could not
afford a lawyer that could properly point out the lack of
evidence (now, it seems to me that any lawyer should be able
to do that, but . . . ). In general, so far whites with good
lawyers who put up a fight were found not guilty, but others
under worse circumstances have been found guilty, and the
prosecutions are continuing.
   In response, one of the accused (and acquitted) is
suing, and some Washington officials have asked the U.S.
Attorney General's office to investigate possible official
wrongdoing. Hopefully, such an investigation can straighten
out this mess, and those who decided to turn Wenatchee into
Salem will be punished. Meanwhile, though, numerous people
who are probably innocent of any wrongdoing have been sent
to prison because of a failure to take a rational look at
extraordinary claims.

		==============================


		      A Nod to Our Patrons

REALL would like to thank our patron members.  Through their extra
generosity, REALL is able to continue to grow as a force for critical
thinking in Central Illinois.  Patron members are those giving $50
or more.  To become a patron of REALL, please see the membership
form below.  Patron members are:

David Bloomberg, Springfield    Bob Ladendorf, Springfield
David Brown, Danville           John Lockard, Jr., Urbana
Alan Burge, D.D.S., Morton      Robert Smet, Ph.D., Springfield
Wally Hartshorn, Springfield    Edward Staehlin, Park Forest

		   ==============================

		    Predictions for Future Issues

	       * Dungeons & Dragons Dangers Debunked

		   * Creationist Claims Examined

		  * Local Psychic's Claims Checked

		   ==============================

			Letters to the Editor

    We at REALL encourage letters to the editor about any article
or topic covered in The REALL News.  We want to make this a forum
for _all_ our members.  (Letters may be edited if too long.  Name,
address and phone number must be included with the letter.)

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			Skeptics Online

If you have a computer and a modem, you owe it to yourself to
participate in the skeptic message areas on the computer BBS
networks.  Here in Springfield, call The Temples of Syrinx at
(217) 522-4707.  David Bloomberg operates this BBS, which carries
the FidoNet SKEPTIC, EVOLUTION, UFO, and FMS conferences,
internationally distributed message areas for discussing topics
of interest to skeptics.  He is also carrying ParaNet conferences,
all dedicated to UFO and paranormal topics.  In addition, he has
recently added several Usenet conferences, including Sci.Skeptic,
the Skeptic Listserver, Talk.Origins, and various Alt.Folklore
groups. You can also find a wide variety of skeptic, scientific,
UFO, FMS, evolution/creation, and urban legend text files there.

	     The Temples of Syrinx -- (217) 522-4707
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		       Skeptics on the Web

Wally Hartshorn has set up an unofficial REALL homepage on the
Internet.  To access it, go to:

		http://www.fgi.net/~whartsho/reall/

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