Article 9176 of alt.conspiracy:
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy
Path: bilver!jwt!gary
From: bbs.gary@jwt.UUCP (Gary Stollman)
Subject: JFK-1 Giancana
Organization: The Matrix
Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1992 04:01:31 GMT
Message-ID: <9oNPHB1w164w@jwt.UUCP>
Sender: bbs@jwt.UUCP (Waffle login)

Science Fiction & Fantasy RT
Category 31,  Topic 5
Message 455       Mon Mar 02, 1992
D.MCWHA3 [Packrat]           at 21:46 EST
 
 Who has read "Double Cross" by Chuck and Sam   
 Giancana available thru Warner Books just now out and       
 already on the best seller lists?  The book is premised on  
 the recollections of Sam "Mooney" Giancana by his brother   
 Chuck Gianacana with help in writing by Chuck's son and     
 Mooney's godson Sam Mooney Giancana.  The book is written in
 conversational narrative to be easy to follow and           
 interesting.  Sam said they did this on purpose to be       
 entertaining and appeal to a much broader audience than a   
 documentary fact listing scenario which turns off so many of
 the regular short attention span public.  It follows the    
 birth, life and death of the probably the most powerful     
 mobster in American history and his involvement with many   
 varied people and organizations.  The interest to those on  
 this board is his stipulations as to how Marilyn Monroe,    
 Bobby and Jack Kennedy were killed and the total involvement
 of the mob and Cia together in all of the murders.  It      
 clearly to me shows the development of the mob/cia growth   
 together til they become for all practical purposes the same
 people and operating organization with the cia doing all    
 they were best at in govt help and interference and the mob 
 doing the dirty wet work with operatives working for both   
 groups at the same time.  The book describes both internal  
 to our govt actions and external overseas action in foreign 
 govt's and in many cases gives names, dates, places, and    
 times.  In this note I will first describe the motives from 
 all concerned in wanting the president killed as expressed  
 by this book and they tie in with all the other             
 pro-conspiracy authors except that they looked at them      
 separately instead as a cooperating group which pooled their
 resources to kill John Fitzgerald Kennedy.                  

 Mob Motive - Especially Giancana -  Joe Kennedy was part of 
 the organized crime cartel starting early in this century   
 with rum running and sugar import to make alcohol and most  
 obliged to return the favors of the New York organization.  
 He got very rich at doing this and there is evidence he was 
 part of the group that made a killing off of the 29 crash of
 the stock market and more likely part of the in group that  
 actually caused the crash.  He knew Giancana early on       
 especially after establishing the Chicago Merchandise Mart. 

 Early on he enlisted Giancana's help for two things, one to
 anull and get rid of the records on Jack's first marriage,  
 Rosselli carried this out for Giancana, and to get the first
 contract on him called off with Mooney's help.  He always   
 had political ambitions for his son's and after the loss of 
 Joe Jr. he concentrated on Jack.  This led to the second    
 contract put on him by Costello in the mid fifties because  
 he balked at acting as a front man for an establishment that
 Costello wanted to set up.  He first asked for Giancana to  
 come and see him, which Mooney refused, then he went to     
 Chicago and met Mooney at the Ambassador East Hotel and     
 begged for his help in removing the contract with Mooney's  
 influence.  His reasons for pulling away from helping the   
 mob who had helped him were to cut away from dealings that  
 would be political suicide for Jack if discovered.  Giancana
 agreed to help once Joe swore on his and his son's life that
 Jack would be exclusively Giancana's man once in the white  
 house.  The contract was dropped on Mooney's request.   

 Early on after Joe K. made the deal with Mooney, Bobby
 started to become a pain with his actions as counsel
 on the senate committee pushing at organized crime.
 The revelations of this committee caused the further
 problem of goading Hoover to actually do something where    
 before he had claimed that no organized crime existed in the
 USA.  Giancana knew this and was upset but Joe kept assuring
 him that everything was under control and no harm would be  
 done.  Giancana, Joe K., and JFK thru the late fifties had  
 several meetings continuing thru the primaries to solidfy   
 plans and setup action to get JFK elected.  Many occuring at
 the selfsame Ambassador East, some at the Cal-Neva in Reno, 
 and other places.  Mooney setup several contact lines       
 between him and JFK and supplied him with women known and   
 unknown to him, and used Frank Sinatra to introduce his ex  
 girlfriend who looked like Jackie, Judith Campbell.  Later  
 Mooney met Campbell for himself arranged in Miami at the    
 Fountainbleu and they both used her for a minimal amount    
 of a go-between, in fact, Mooney said Jack himself suggested
 the go-between and never believed that Giancana had set up  
 the whole thing in the first place.  Mooney said JFK's ego  
 was amazing and that Campbell was one of of many such       
 contacts and a minor one at that.  Giancana bought West     
 Virginia votes and swung the election in Chicago with the   
 old tried and true methods of multiple voters, dead voters, 
 and muscle at the ballot boxes.  An early recount showed    
 Nixon had actually won Illinois by 4500 votes but according 
 to Giancana the mob pressured Nixon to concede for future   
 help and he did and that stopped the recount from going any 
 further, so JFK was president.  Mooney said it was no       
 problem and was estatic at thinking all the rest of the mob 
 bosses would have to come thru him for access to JFK.  He   
 said Nixon was a sure bet already being the mob's man from  
 California as were Warren and Reagan and had a proven track 
 record in mob dealings but that JFK was his, although a     
 gamble, He preferred the risk of having that much more      
 power.  The double cross begins early when JFK appoints     
 Bobby as attorney general but Joe assured Mooney it was     
 okay, Mooney figured Bobby would be used to harness Hoover  
 and stop his mob persecution to retain his job.  Hoover was 
 kept paid by the mob by giving him fixed horse race tips    
 thru Walter Winchell which were always right and Hoover had 
 all the money he needed without accepting cash directly.    
 Mooney said up until Bobby made trouble on the committee in 
 the late fifties and later as attorney general, Hoover was  
 being paid to stay away from the mob and pursued the dreaded
 commie menace and car thiefs.  Bobby himself believed that  
 of the 10,000 members of the communist party over 6000 in   
 1961 were paid FBI informants and other documents released  
 confirm this.  But Bobby was not out to control Hoover he   
 was out to shut down the very people who got his brother in 
 the white house and the mob and Mooney especially got madder
 and madder.  At first Giancana collected a huge amount of   
 evidence of Jack and Bobby's philandering to hedge his bets 
 but later realized that he could not publish this evidence  
 he had in a chicago safety deposit box because it would     
 reveal the tie between the mob and the CIA.  So it was      
 decided to hit Kennedy.  Before this they hit Marilyn       
 Monroe at the CIA's request because she was threatening to  
 talk over losing Bobby's interest.  More about that in      
 another note.  So Joe, Jack, and Bobby had severely double  
 crossed the mob and the mob would not stand for that.
----------


Article 9177 of alt.conspiracy:
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy
Path: bilver!jwt!gary
From: bbs.gary@jwt.UUCP (Gary Stollman)
Subject: JFK-2 - Giancana
Organization: The Matrix
Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1992 04:02:40 GMT
Message-ID: <6qNPHB2w164w@jwt.UUCP>
Sender: bbs@jwt.UUCP (Waffle login)

Science Fiction & Fantasy RT
Category 31,  Topic 5
Message 456       Mon Mar 02, 1992
D.MCWHA3 [Packrat]           at 21:47 EST
 
  
 CIA motive according to Giancana -  Well the double cross   
 was here to.  Mooney said the Nixon/Eisenhower plan         
 inheirited and CIA/MOB actions planned to get their money   
 making machine back from Castro, Operation Zapata, the Bay  
 of Pigs, was intended more to force US military action      
 rather than actually succeeding on their own.  Mooney lists 
  his people involved in all sorts of castro actions         
 including gun running, attempted assassination, civil       
 unrest, drugs etc and those involved were, himself,         
 Marcello, Trafficante, Ferrie, Banister, Rosselli, Ruby,    
 Frank Fiorini/Sturgis, Humphreys, and many others with some 
 hinted at but not named to Chuck by Mooney.  Mooney said he 
 sent Ruby down to get Trafficante out of jail himself since 
 Ruby was his man placed in Dallas with Marcello's           
 permission in 1947 and he considered Ruby loyal and         
 efficient in his work with the Cia running guns and other   
 things.  Mooney also stated that Ruby had been helped by    
 Nixon in 1947 when he was subpoeaned by the House, he said  
 Nixon got him out of testifying,  When Chuck asked how,     
 Mooney said Nixon just said that Ruby worked for him and it 
 was simple.  In any case, the bay of pigs was a major       
 failure and JFK was furious but took the responsibility,    
 afterwards he fired Dulles, Cabell, and Bissell and         
 threatened to scatter the CIA into a thousand pieces and    
 issued a NSAM to put control of all covert ops directly     
 under the Joint Chiefs.  He was replacing many other        
 officials in various agencies, retiring them politely to get
 his people in and in control.  The CIA was furious and began
 talking to Giancana in 61 about plans to eliminate JFK.     
 The other actions that JFK initiated as documented by many  
 on these boards only added fuel to the fire for the top     
 officials of the CIA, past and present to want Kennedy out, 
 and this included other so called military men, really      
 intelligence grown like Lansdale, to want him out just as   
 much.  In fact key players in all intelligence outfits saw  
 JFK as soft on the commies and more importantly hard on them
 and their profits and existence.                            

 Politicians motives -  These too have been expressed in many
 ways but the root is that all of the major political people 
 who had a direct involvement in this scenario were all mob  
 connected, Nixon, Johnson, the major players and many others
 all owed their existence to mob and oil money both          
 connected.  Johnson in particular was up to his neck in the 
 Baker/Estes scandals and needed a way out and Hoover's full 
 cooperation to squelch these actions.                       

 The FBI -  The FBI was Hoover and he hated the Kennedy's as 
 much as anybody and had the monetary ties to not want to    
 prosecute the mob.  Mooney said he knew hoover would never  
 help Bobby find his brothers killers and after Mooney had   
 Marilyn Monroe murdered for the CIA and Bobby and Peter     
 Lawford wrongly believed that it was Bobby's fault due to   
 the sedative injection immediately before the murder, Bobby 
 had used FBI assets to cover the death including removing   
 the phone logs and other personal items linking her to him. 
  Mooney said that he believed Hoover had gained and kept    
 MM's diary and from then on had Bobby over a barrel due to  
 his illicit use of the agency.  Mooney said after the hit on
 JFK, Hoover covered it up, put heads in the sand, and helped
 to frame the selected patsy.  Where witnesses could not be  
 controlled the CIA's line in the agency took care of it.    

 OIL mens motive -  JFK intended to get rid of the 27% oil   
 depletion allowance and had so stated.  This depletion      
 allowance allowed 27 percent of all oil produced to be non  
 taxable as sort of a depreciation on the depletion of the   
 oil fields.  This in itself was a gold mine for anyone with 
 profits connected to oil production.  Along with most of    
 these men were extremely right wing and did not care for    
 the perceived commie status of their leader.  Other right   
 wing Texans were implyed by Mooney as being furious with JFK
 and members in Florida and Louisiana and other areas all    
 wanted the Kennedy's out of power by any means.  So the plot
 begins.                                                     
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Article 9178 of alt.conspiracy:
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy
Path: bilver!jwt!gary
From: bbs.gary@jwt.UUCP (Gary Stollman)
Subject: JFK-3 - Giancana
Organization: The Matrix
Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1992 04:04:17 GMT
Message-ID: <uTNPHB3w164w@jwt.UUCP>
Sender: bbs@jwt.UUCP (Waffle login)

Science Fiction & Fantasy RT
Category 31,  Topic 5
Message 457       Mon Mar 02, 1992
D.MCWHA3 [Packrat]           at 21:52 EST
 
 Plot and Planning according to Giancana-  Major meetings of 
 major player occurred as early as March 63 and coordinated  
 by Mooney.  Mooney said he met in DC with Rosselli, Maheu,  
 Gen Cabell (working for Maheu) a covert ops specialist from 
 the CIA which he knew from the bay of pigs (Hunt?) and the  
 man from asia in charge of intelligence there and he was top
 brass according to Mooney (Lansdale??)  They met in Maheu's 
 detective agency front for the CIA, similar to Banisters    
 front in New Orleans, and other in Chicago and Los Angeles. 
 Mooney said he initially met in Dallas and several times    
 thereafter including the morning of the assassination with  
 the oil men financing the operation, the politicians, and   
 the top men involved in the CIA (including present and      
 former leaders )  For the rest he relied on his lieutenants 
 to coordinate the rest of the details and these he named as 
 Lenny Patrick, Dave Yaras, Paul Jones, Lewis McWillie, and  
 Red and Allen Dorfman.  Mooney selected Jack Ruby as the    
 overall outfit's (Chicago mob) man to run things in Dallas  
 because of several things.  Ruby had demonstrated his       
 extreme loyalty and ability to work with the CIA during the 
 planning for the bay of pigs operation.  He had actually    
 come in to his own during these operations and made fast    
 friendships with undercover agents, men like Lee Harvey     
 Oswald and David Ferrie.  Mooney stated Ruby had even given 
 Ferrie a job in his Carousel Club.  Mooney said there was   
 another reason he had selected Jack Ruby for the Job:  His  
 relationships with Dallas Law enforcement officers were     
 unusually good.  He had massaged the local cops and         
 politicians since coming to dallas gradually getting to know
 most on a first name basis.  These friendships, Mooney said,
 had been extremely useful in overcoming problems " with the 
 local cop in the street" in the aftermath of the            
 assassination.  Using these associations Ruby was able to   
 gain entry to all parts of the police station, "an          
 astounding feat for a person the press later referred to as 
 a "half witted strip club operator" both immediately after  
 Oswalds's arrest, and more critically, during Oswalds'      
 transfer.  The look on Oswald's face at the sight of a man  
 he knew, should have tipped the cops, Mooney admitted,      
 "S*(* , I heard the were Q***r for each other." Mooney said.
 "They sure as H*ll were friends.... Oswald knew what the    
 story was when he saw Jack Ruby comin' at him.  He knew he  
 had been made the patsy already and then he knew Jack was   
 gonna take him out... but what the f*** was he gonna do     
 about it then?" Mooney shrugged impassively. "It was too    
 late."  There wasn't an outfit guy alive who didn/t think it
 was better to die in prison or in the chair than to die at  
 the hands of Mooney's vengeful enforcers for a messed up    
 job.  The memory of Action Jackson lingered, Ruby had to.   

 The Plot -  Mooney and the rest of the mob, the CIA boys   
 involved, the oil men financing the hit, and other right    
 wingers planned the hit and each contributed people, money, 
 guns, and action to share the action and insulate themselves
 in several different paths from the actual followup.  The   
 call went out for expert marksmen and each group provided   
 the following people as named by Giancana as the actual     
 gunmen.  Mooney organization provided Ricard Cain, Chuck    
 Nicoletti, and Milwaukee Phil.  Mooney stated that Cain was 
 the actual shooter in the alledged "Oswald sniper nest" and 
 Nicoletti was the other shooter on the opposite end of the  
 sixth floor of the depository.  Milwaukee Phil was stationed
 armed to keep others from interfering with the shooters.    
 Marcello provided Jack Lawrence and Charles Harrelson as    
 gunmen on the grassy knoll area.  Trafficante provided two  
 cuban exile gunmen not named but one was rumored to be a    
 former Havana vice cop turned mobster and the other a       
 radical turned corrupt U.S. Customs official.  Mooney also  
 alleged that the CIA added and provided several of their own
 soldiers to the team using Roscoe White and J.D. Tippit as  
 the actual gunmen, along with Frank Fiorini and of course   
 Lee Harvey Oswald as the man they intended to frame as the  
 the gunmen.  Mooney had sent Rosseli to New Orleans several 
 times to confer with Marcello, Banister, Ferrie, and they   
 had all agreed as early as March, April 63 that Oswald would
 be the perfect patsy and they all proceeded to implicate him
 more with actions directed to incriminate him later.  The   
 top Cia people involved ran the show from a hotel close to  
 the site of the proposed hit and close to Ruby's club, ( the
 Adolphus???) and they had walkie talkies and electronics of 
 the latest manufacture which they used to get the shooters  
 in place and undetected and track the location of Oswald    
 continuously for his later death in the street. In fact     
 according to Mooney J.D. Tippit and Roscoe White, both Cia  
 soldier and both on the dallas police force in the same     
 manner that Cain was put in the Chicago sheriff's office    
 were the ones detailed to kill Oswald on the street         
 immediately after the hit went off and since they were in   
 uniform, they could gun down the patsy in self defense and  
 stop the big investigation right there.  This according to  
 Mooney was the only s****up of the whole operation.  It     
 seems Tippit got cold feet or balked allowing Oswald to     
 escape the trap and White had been forced to kill Tippit    
 with probable help from Ruby or someone else.  In any case  
 Oswald got captured alive at where he was told to go and    
 wait for contact and not on the street on the way there as  
 planned.  Mooney said after the hit the CIA did their part  
 exceptionally well removing all traces of the conspiracy and
 falsifying all the evidence or planting it including some   
 prepared evidence.  It appears they had inside men at all   
 points both in the FBI and secret service and that the      
 cooperation of the Dallas authorities headed by Mayor Cabell
 backed off all the local security and the top guys in govt  
 pulled off all they could from the military side.  Mooney   
 said that "It was so loose in Dallas that day that a four  
 year old could have popped Kennedy."  Mooney said to his    
 brother that what they did in Dallas they had done many     
 times before, just that this was the first coordinated      
 action inside the United States. "On 11-22-63 the USA had a
 coup; its that simple. The govt was overthrown by a handful 
 of guys who did it so well, not one American ever knew it   
 happened." Mooney said ( I paraphrase some).

----------



